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I avoided bringing up the TF films in this thread until AFTER you dragged them into it.<br>===============<br><br>No one dragged anything. <br><br>I briefly mentioned that franchise, among many other things you conveniently ignored (you do that a lot), to prove a simple point: that a director doesn't get to make 5 movies from the same franchise if people aren't enjoying his work. Simple as that. I never talked about the "quality" of each of those movies. Go see the comment again.<br><br>YOU picked up on this and started talking obsessively about the TF. <br><br><br>==============<br>Going after every person that doesn't like Bay and trying to obsessively "debunk" them is psychotic, yes. <br>==============<br><br>Look at your first comment here, pal. Look at it good! Snarky, dismissive, almost trollish, and with a clear intention to provoke people. Let me quote it: "Another day, another Bay film that doesn't know what fun is." <br><br>I only "go after" people who can't share their opinions in a respectful, mature way. There are a lot of comments here I disagreed with. But I never confronted those people. Why? Because they know how to properly share an opinion. <br><br>I only go after people who provoke, make fun of someone/something and troll. I've never "attacked" a person who didn't deserve that kind of response. My post history here speaks for itself. <br><br><br>===================<br>And constantly referring to other people's opinions and whinging about the box office doesn't make you objective, especially with how self-contradictory the latter has been.<br>===================<br><br>Nope. Not even close. <br><br>You're just bitter that I'm using quotes from proven, talented people like Spielberg who support Bay. What quotes can your side use? Just quotes from knucklehead film bloggers and critics who hate half of what Hollywood makes. <br><br>No one with an actual integrity and knowledge of the film business can dismiss what Bay has accomplished. You may not like his stuff, but to completely dismiss him as a filmmaker is.......moronic. Truth is, it's only small fries on the internet who are angry that their favorite mid-level directors aren't as big and successful as Bay.<br><br>That's really the bottom line. <br><br>Speaking of that, who is YOUR favorite filmmaker? Go ahead, share it with us. Let's see who is that PERFECT filmmaker you drool over.<br><br>I'm really curious.<br><br>==============<br>By your own "objective" reasoning, this would make them his worst films. But you don't acknowledge that, because you don't actually care about objectivity.<br>==============<br><br>Huh??<br><br>When did I said that box office success or box office failure means that a movie is good or bad?? I never that. So if you don't mind, stop putting words in my mouth.<br><br>Thank you. <br><br><br>==================<br>You care about faking it when it suits you, and chucking it when it doesn't<br>==================<br><br><br>Kinda ironic coming from the person who ignored the majority of the stuff I said here. Careful cherry-picking, convenient ignoring of stuff, and putting words in my mouth is apparently what you like to do. <br><br><br>================<br>What do you mean "next time?" Your first reply here was calling my opinion a joke.<br>================<br><br>Uhhhh, that's because it IS a joke. Because it is not true and because it was posted with the clear intention to provoke. You are the Negative Nancy here, my friend. Not me. Jesus Christ, even your nickname tells people exactly what they can expect from you......"Cynical Makooti". <br><br><br>====================<br>I didn't insult you for anything other than lying to win an argument<br>====================<br><br>Oh, that's true....................you're certainly not winning this argument. I mean, that's obvious. <br><br>And..... I never posted a lie. Just because "your sources" claim something different doesn't mean it's the truth. Pacific Rim wasn't a success - considering the huge expactations and the fact that the movie's budget is $200 freakin' million - and they DID try to start a franchise with 300. They failed. <br><br><br>================<br>Your lack of self-awareness is astounding.<br>================<br><br>That's rich. Coming from the guy who calls himself "Cynical Makooti". The guy who now plays the victim, even though he was the one who started this with a childish, trollish comment. <br><br>Look at my first reply to you. I was jokingly mimicking your style. Intentionally. Then you tried to be a smartass with your next reply. But EVEN THEN, I responded in a normal way with my second post. After that........you unleashed your true self. <br><br>And now, you're acting like the victim: "Poor me, being attacked by a crazy Bay fan!" <br><br>So please, don't talk about self-awareness. It ain't working.<br><br><br><br>================<br>Pacific Rim was a domestic bomb that turned things around with its international box office.<br>================<br><br>Haha, maybe you should read more Forbes. Take a look at what they said about the entire (already failed) Pac Rim universe. Read a bit more on how much money the studio lost from the first flick and why they actually went with a sequel. It ain't because the first one was a beloved hit. <br><br><br>=======<br>The Last Knight lost about $100M according to Paramount themselves. That doesn't sound like an international success to me.<br>=======<br><br>Okay, I believe you. Now, would you please share the link to that statement from Paramount. <br><br>Thank you. <br><br><br>=============<br>Maybe it does to you, but I can't speak for that little fantasy world you seem to be living in right now.<br>=============<br><br>Hey, it's certainly a better and more reasonable place than your world. A world where you completely dismiss and ignore the accomplishments of one of the biggest filmmakers out there.<br><br>What's your next claim? <br><br>That Donnie Trump is the best President in history?<br><br><br>Have a nice day!Do any of you think that Junkie's Justice League score will ever get released or leaked? I was really excited to hear how Junkie planned on developing the themes used in the prior DCEU movies. Especially the Batman themes from BVS. It's a damn shame how WB handled that film."Why do Bay naysayers pretend that Bay only directs TF movies? It's very interesting...... Pretty much all complaints against Bay are connected to the TF movies.<br><br>Newsflash: Bay was a proven and very successful action filmmaker wayyyyyyyyyyyyy before TF1."<br><br>Newsflash: I avoided bringing up the TF films in this thread until AFTER you dragged them into it. Only then did I treat them as fair game. Considering they make up a third of his filmography, I don't see why I SHOULDN'T address them. How convenient is it that bringing them up is only ever valid when YOU do it?<br><br>More to the point, I already said I thought his decline kicked in from Pearl Harbor onwards. The TF films are just his rock bottom.<br><br>"So let me get this straight: trying to be as objective as possible, in a non-threating way, quoting people who actually know what they're talking about and certainly not treating my opinion as fact, makes me......psychotic."<br><br>Going after every person that doesn't like Bay and trying to obsessively "debunk" them is psychotic, yes. And constantly referring to other people's opinions and whinging about the box office doesn't make you objective, especially with how self-contradictory the latter has been.<br><br>Pain & Gain and 13 Hours, his supposedly best films, also have his lowest box office turnouts. 13 Hours was a flat-out bomb. By your own "objective" reasoning, this would make them his worst films. But you don't acknowledge that, because you don't actually care about objectivity.<br><br>You care about faking it when it suits you, and chucking it when it doesn't.<br><br>"Next time, I'll just act like a complete jerk, insulting everyone and everything."<br><br>What do you mean "next time?" Your first reply here was calling my opinion a joke. You already have this method down. You're just too dishonest to admit it.<br><br>Notice how I avoided accusing you of anything until AFTER you started outright lying about movies and flaunting it as objective fact.<br><br>You insulted ME first, pal. I didn't insult you for anything other than lying to win an argument. Not for your opinions, not for your celebrity crush, for being a disingenuous twat. <br><br>Your lack of self-awareness is astounding.<br><br>"Reviews, RT scores, and crappy film blog "think pieces" are also not proof of quality."<br><br>Then it's a good thing I never quoted a single one of those, let alone as objective proof, isn't it?<br><br>Man, appeal to authority, appeal to popularity, mistaking correlation for causation, slothful induction, strawmanning, I could make a bingo game outta this.<br><br>"So that flick, according to you, turned a profit.......but TLK - budget of also $200 million and with a worldwide gross of $605 million..........is a bomb?"<br><br>Not "according to me." According to the studios that make the actual films. And Forbes. Remember Forbes? You considered their word inarguable fact a couple posts ago.<br><br>https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2013/09/02/pacif ic-rim-and-more-domestic-flops-that-became-global-hits/#3f3e 914d7c18<br><br>Well whaddaya know?<br><br>Pacific Rim was a domestic bomb that turned things around with its international box office.<br><br>That thing you said TF5 was but actually wasn't.<br><br>The Last Knight lost about $100M according to Paramount themselves. That doesn't sound like an international success to me.<br><br>Maybe it does to you, but I can't speak for that little fantasy world you seem to be living in right now.<br><br>Wow! Just wow!ThxSeville, The Bait, Ambrose Welcomes Nyah, Chimera Myth, Beach Fight, Ambrose Dies.
Can we stop? I agree with the other guy more in his points, but it's clear that this is gonna keep going nowhere if you're gonna be so overly defensive about something that you claim is merely subjective.But here we are, calling dog-humping, Decepticon testicles, and mommy-on-pot-brownies "challenging the viewer."<br>======================<br><br><br>Why do Bay naysayers pretend that Bay only directs TF movies? It's very interesting...... Pretty much all complaints against Bay are connected to the TF movies.<br><br>Newsflash: Bay was a proven and very successful action filmmaker wayyyyyyyyyyyyy before TF1. <br><br>So no, "challenging the viewer" is not about Transformers. You chose to focus on these movies. Not me. I was actually reffering to Bay movies like The Island and especially Pain and Gain. <br><br>But I guess you like to talk only about Transformers.....Good for you. But that's not how a discussion works. <br><br><br>===================<br>Instead of accepting that your love of Bay is nothing more than a opinion, just as my claim that he misses the point of what makes action movies fun is, you turn into an overly-defensive nut, desperately quoting every opinion piece under the sun to pretend your opinion is some statistically-backed fact. I've seen you do this every time someone talks shit about Bay around here. It's psychotic.<br>===================<br><br><br>So let me get this straight: trying to be as objective as possible, in a non-threating way, quoting people who actually know what they're talking about and certainly not treating my opinion as fact, makes me......psychotic? <br><br>Wow! Just wow!<br><br>Next time, I'll just act like a complete jerk, insulting everyone and everything. For you, that is apparently the normal behavior.<br><br><br>======<br>Bad movies make money. Everyone knows that, and everyone knows that's not proof of quality.<br>=======<br><br>Reviews, RT scores, and crappy film blog "think pieces" are also not proof of quality. Also, a "bad" movie to you is the greatest movie for the guy walking next to you on the street. As Kevin Smith said: "Every movie is someone's favorite movie". <br><br>Let's try to keep that in mind.<br><br><br>============<br>That's not just a domestic bomb, that's a bomb altogether.<br>============<br><br>Really?<br><br>Then what do you have to say about Pacific Rim 1. I present to you.......the pure numbers:<br><br>Budget: $200 million. And that doesn't include the marketing cost.<br>Worldwide gross: $411,002,906<br><br>So that flick, according to you, turned a profit.......but TLK - budget of also $200 million and with a worldwide gross of $605 million..........is a bomb?<br><br>Wow! Just.....wow!Yeah lol back then only Harold was confirmed.Can you tell me a names of cues, that was been on Klaus website?Formality indeed. Complicated ! lol<br><br>You can bet Blake Neely didn't need anyone to "write" those 10 seconds !! lol
I always found these credits to be a bit confusing. Klaus Badelt is credited on almost every cue, even when his themes don't appear and another additional composer is credited as well. I thought maybe it was just a formality that Zimmer and Badelt were credited everywhere (I mean, how much could they be involved on a cue like "Welcome to the Caribbean"?), but then "No real ship" and "Sword Fight Pt. 2" have no Badelt for some reason. Does someone know a bit more about this?well the composer confirmed he is working on it to be released very soon<br>"It's funny tho......people always complain how Hollywood plays it safe and how movies don't take chances..........but when a movie with tonal shifts that challenge the viewer and offer something bold shows up, people bitch and complain."<br><br>I didn't think it was possible for a Bay fan of all people to be this insufferably pretentious.<br><br>I thought that was more Snyder fanboy territory.<br><br>But here we are, calling dog-humping, Decepticon testicles, and mommy-on-pot-brownies "challenging the viewer."<br><br>Kudos, man. Kudos.<br><br>You can hide behind however many fallacies you want. If "Not to me" and "You do you" didn't give it away early on in this thread, I DIDN'T try to treat my opinions as fact.<br><br>But that doesn't mean I'm going to add a little "IMO" at the end of every goddamn sentence just to coddle you. <br><br>On the flip-side, consistently making appeals to authority and popularity, "B-b-but Spielberg said!", "B-b-but the Forbes poll said!" don't make you objective.<br><br>Y'know, it's funny. When I listed off better blockbuster examples, you could've very easily just argued against them on the level of the films themselves, and everything would've been fine.<br><br>Sure, you would've just claimed you can't see the action at night sooner, which is rich when you praise the film series that puts the subjects of its action scenes OUT OF FOCUS every other shot, but hey, that's just honest opinions versus honest opinions.<br><br>But using two belated half-assed sequels from different, less talented directors that lost most of the appeal of the first movies, as some sorta litmus test for how well-liked the first movies were, is the biggest bunch of bullshit I've ever heard. That's not objectivity, that's not even confusing correlation with causation, that's saying 1+2=4.<br><br>That's the real joke here. Instead of accepting that your love of Bay is nothing more than a opinion, just as my claim that he misses the point of what makes action movies fun is, you turn into an overly-defensive nut, desperately quoting every opinion piece under the sun to pretend your opinion is some statistically-backed fact. I've seen you do this every time someone talks shit about Bay around here. It's psychotic.<br><br>Bad movies make money. Everyone knows that, and everyone knows that's not proof of quality. But if that's the kinda road you wanna go down, I guess movies like Avatar, The Force Awakens, or all the Avengers movies, are "objectively" better movies in every conceivable way than anything Bay has made in his entire career. I mean, CLEARLY those films must have a bolder style and push more boundaries.<br><br>Why else would more people watch and rewatch them, right?<br><br>Reasonable causation is for those goshdarn geek journos.<br><br>And by the way, The Last Knight lost money. Period. Almost 100M according to Paramount themselves.<br><br>That's not just a domestic bomb, that's a bomb altogether.<br><br>Have a nice day.Siding with the guy that lied through his teeth to feign objectivity seems like a bad call.<br>==================<br><br>Kinda ironic, coming from you....but I'll take it as a compliment. Thank you! <br><br>And yes, he sides with me because what I say is common sense. For whatever reason, you have these strong negative feelings toward Bay films and those feelings blind you to some pretty obvious truths. <br><br>Have to say tho - for a 'hater' you sure know A LOT about him, his style and his movies. <br><br>Just admit it - you are a huge Bay fan but you just want to score some points with the snobbish internet crowd. <br><br><br><br>============<br>In any case, modern Bay and Snyder don't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Fury Road.<br>============<br><br>Oh, you're one of THOSE people......"Fury Roaaaaaaaaad is DA BEST FILM EVAAAAAAAA".<br><br>Let me guess: you also think that Nolan is the greatest director/person of all time. On par with Jesus himself. <br><br><br><br>==========<br>What DOES matter is scripts with razor focus, sharp pacing, witty and/or charming humor (if it wants humor, that is), and characters likable enough to carry us through the narrative.<br>==========<br><br>Which is what Transformers 1 is. <br><br>Which is why the movie connected with audiences. It was - at its heart - a story about a boy and his car. Even the most jaded critics enjoyed that aspect.<br><br><br>=============<br>And again, the likes of Pacific Rim, or 300, or the first Pirates of the Caribbean, or the first Kingsmen, or John Wick, or most Guy Ritchie films, or the better fourth of superhero films, illustrate that Bay and Snyder have no excuse.<br>=============<br><br>Excuse? For what?<br><br>My friend, you do realize that Bay in particular is one of the most powerful and successful filmmakers of all time, right? He is the second highest-grossing director of all time (domestically), only behind Spielberg. You can dismiss box office success all you want but you don't get to where Bay is if you're not good at your job. <br><br>Snyder is nowhere near Bay, in terms of success and influence. Personally, I don't care much about him. <br><br><br>P.S. Guy Ritchie (and Edgar Wright) are huge Bay fans. Ask yourself why. <br><br><br>===============<br>They just aren't very good filmmakers on the whole<br>===============<br><br>Your opinion.<br><br>I disagree.Bay walks the lines between being self-serious and comical, but his films aren't well=written enough to serve the former, or witty enough to serve the latter, and the end-result is droll and annoying.<br>====================<br><br>You sure you're not a "writer" for one of those ridiculous geek sites like Collider, Screen Rant or Slash Film? Because you sound a lot like one of those "beloved" writers. <br><br>Anyway......Yes, Bay's movies always walk that line but whether that works or not is........Yes! a matter of opinion. For me, Pain and Gain is one of the best modern satires while for you it is - I'm guessing - "droll and annoying".<br><br>It's funny tho......people always complain how Hollywood plays it safe and how movies don't take chances..........but when a movie with tonal shifts that challenge the viewer and offer something bold shows up, people bitch and complain. <br><br>Some of you folks are indeed very hard to please. <br><br><br>===============<br>The first POTC earns it. The Bad Boys 2 doesn't. Infinity War earns it. TF 1/2/3/4/5 doesn't.<br>==============<br><br>Okay, now that statement is the best joke of the year! Thank you for the good laugh! Really! Oh, and I've definitely argued with you before, my friend. You are clearly one of those ten Bay haters from the IMDb forums who claim to hate everything the man does, yet they have seen EVERYTHING he had done. Why is that, I wonder?<br><br><br>===========<br>Fitting, as Synder and Bay are cut from a very similar cloth. Difference is, unless we're talking Man of Steel, I'd sooner rely on Snyder for consistently good action sequences<br>===========<br><br>Well, I would trust Spielberg on this. Because it was Spielberg who said, and I quote: "Michael (Bay) is one of the greatest action directors. He has the best eye in Hollywood." Spielberg works with a lot of directors. But he never said anything like that about any other director. So clearly he means what he says about Bay. And....you know......unlike most people, Speilberg actually knows a thing or two about filmmaking. <br><br><br>================<br>300 didn't try to start a franchise. It was a one-off adaptation of a graphic novel in the same vein as Sin City, and was successful. They tried to make a cash-grab sequel almost a decade later, without Snyder, and it failed. That's hardly the first film's fault.<br>================<br><br>It is a clear proof that people weren't that excited to visit this world again. And mind you, that happened with the first sequel! Talk about a one-time thing, huh?<br><br>At the same time, Bay made FOUR Transformers movies - with different casts - before there were any signs of audience fatigue. <br><br>That speaks for itself.<br><br>===========<br>Pacific Rim suffered from lackluster marketing, and yet still managed to turn a profit and attract a strong following.<br>==========<br><br>Excuses, excuses, excuses.....So you can display all the excuses in the world for Pac Rim but when it comes to Transformers, you don't accept anything. <br><br>Double standard much?<br><br>P.S. That "strong following" is on the internet. The same following that was supposed to make Scott Pillgrim a huge hit. Everyone knows that internet hype is not real-world hype. I know very well the type of people who act as if Pac Rim is the best thing since sliced bread. Total geeks who are angry that Transformers is much more popular and much more successful than Del Toro's "let's shoot all the robot fights in pitch black so audiences can't see shit" movie. <br><br>Also, let's not pretend that Pac Rim is a universally beloved film. You know very well that there are A LOT of detractors as well. That's what you get when people can't tell what's going on during the movie because you shot it all at night. Just like that Godzilla movie. <br><br><br>============<br>Versus something like Transformers, which has piggybacked on an established IP, relentless marketing campaigns and tie-ins, and a fairly consistent release schedule. And even then, recycling the same bullshit eventually took its toll.<br>============<br><br><br>Wrong.<br><br>Do you read Forbes? You should. Because it's a place where objective people write. It ain't a stupid militant film geek site like Ain't it Cool News or Screen Rant.<br><br>Forbes published multiple articles explaining in great detail why the Transformers movies were successful EXACTLY because they were directed by Bay. Whether you like it or not, my friend, Bay is a brand. He is an auteur. There were multiple polls before the first two Transformers movies and Bay being the director was one of the main reasons for people to watch the movies. <br><br>But I guess you missed all of that, huh?<br><br>How convenient.<br><br><br>==============<br>Friendly reminder that AoE also relied on China (more pathetically then even Pacific Rim did) to compensate for diminishing domestic returns. To say nothing of TLK outright bombing.<br>==============<br><br>First: according to ACTUAL real data, the only TF movie that was saved by China is.......Bumblebee! Yeah, you better believe it. Go to Deadline and Forbes and read it for yourself.<br><br>Second: TLK bombed domestically, yes. <br>But not internationally. No one with actual knowledge of the situation refers to that movie as an international "bomb". Besides, there were 4 super successful TF movies before TLK. So Bay got nothing to prove. He already created one of the biggfest film franchises in history. <br><br>How many directors can say that?<br><br><br><br>==================<br>I know you like debunking Bay naysayers with "facts and logic," but it helps to not be grossly disingenuous while doing it<br>==================<br><br><br>Goes both ways, my friend. But unlike most naysayers, I don't treat my own personal opinions as facts. And if I'm being "disingenuous" then I don't even know what to say about some Bay haters who refuse to accept even the most obvious facts and truths.
nopeYou realize there is a very easy and free method to get the music from that site, dont you?Random thought but this got me thinking about Zanelli's history with fantasy.<br><br>Whatever happened to his score for Delgo? I know it's been accused of being super derivative of his other works anyways but still, it's weird to see a RCP score just drop off the face of the Earth like that.There's just something really charming about seeing a prototype for a famous future theme showing up in an old score.<br><br>Or in PotC's case, SCORES.The only ones I've seen properly confirmed are the cues Badelt had listed on his website. The issue with everything else is that there's certain themes that's been associated with certain people, but aren't credited for every appearance. Not to mention that I've never really seen much official credits elsewhere, so I take any that I've seen with a grain of salt.
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