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I just re-watch this movie and i thought: what if the studio hadn't rejected Alan Silvestri's score?? We were really lucky on this :p
lol, Good point. Did Alan Silvestri actually write any music or was he chosen then left/was fired before doing anything?
Apparently Silvestri recorded a cue for the Moonlight Serenade sequence. Rest was all mock-ups and anyway, whatever he did write, good or bad, there was no doubt Bruckheimer would find any lousy excuse just to get Hans on board.
If The Mummy Returns and Van Helsing from around the same time are anything to go by, Silvestri's score would have been fantastic! Very different, of course, but probably really entertaining.
Trent Easton Navarro
As enjoyable as Badelt?Zimmer's score is, I think Silvestri would have written a great score for this one. Like Edmund said, The Mummy Returns and Van Helsing were pretty awesome, as were his previous scores for Verbinski.
Of course Silvestri's not a bad composer, but i'm pretty sure he would never have reached the level of epicness of the 2d and 3rd movies scores!
Not that this is related to Silvestri, but Dead Man's Chest didn't really feel "epic" to me. There were new themes for Davy Jones and the Kraken, and some new motifs for Jack Sparrow, but overall the score felt like a continuation of the score for the first movie.
But yeah...At World's End was really epic. :P
Of course, you're entitled to your opinion. You didn't ask what mine was, I just gave it. Sorry about that.
Is the trailer music composed by HZ or Alan Silvestri? According to the trailer credits: "Music by Alan Silvestri", but the theme in the end is used by HZ for his Pirate's scores.
The trailer music is a Drop Zone cue by HZ. And Silvestri's credited cause the trailer is from before he was fired !
Am I the only one that finds it ironic the trailer cue is by zimmer and before silvestri got fired? :P
Maybe after the trailer they realized that Zimmer's music is more suitable for the Pirates' universe. Better late than never!:-)
Ignoring the question of whether there SHOULD be a Pirates 5, does anyone think there will be one? If so, is it likely that Hans will score it?
I think it's almost certain that Hans will score fifth Pirates. And no, there should not be any more Pirates ;)
There's definitely gonna be another one, although there really shouldn't. And honestly, I don't even want Hans to do another one. I think he said everything he wanted to say with the trilogy, especially in At World's End, which was a great confluence of all the themes ideas from all the movies. The fourth movie was redundant in every possible way and so was the score.
I don't think there should be a Pirates 5, either, and that is partially because I doubt Hans would want to do it. I know Hybrid said all the temp music in On Stranger Tides was the director's fault, and I'm sure that's true, but it's a safe bet, I think, that Hans is ready to be done with these movies. In fact, he even said in an interview for POTC4 how you can only do so much with a given set of themes, and that he thought they were done after the third movie, and that he didn't even think there would be a second and third film--as in, he never really planned on doing any sequels.
However, that's not to say that I'd mind a score to Pirates 5 if Hans is able to come up with a good amount of new material, rather than being forced to temp the majority of the thing.
I don`t think so.
Racket, which part were you replying to, the question of whether there will be another movie, or the question of whether Hans will compose it?
There will be a new one, Disney announced it 2 weeks ago. It's planned for 2015 if i'm right. I want Geoff Zanelli or Lorne Balfe to score it, not Zimmer anymore. I like him a lot but we need some fresh air and a composer who really WANTS to do that!
Trent Easton Navarro
"I want Geoff Zanelli or Lorne Balfe to score it, not Zimmer anymore. I like him a lot but we need some fresh air and a composer who really WANTS to do that!"
As if Zimmer really would write all of the score himself :P He'll probably get the main credit, but his minions will do all the work ;)
I want Zimmer to score it if he makes new stuff. If not Zimmer, I think Geoff Zanelli, Lorne Balfe, and whoever else has worked on these movies should collaborate using Hans' themes.
This is the most random of questions, but is the "Black Pearl" theme (Swords Crossed, To The Pirates' Cave, ect) by HZ or Klaus Badelt?
I'm not sure anyone knows that--but I could be wrong. This whole score sounds uniformly the same (redundancy, anyone?). I mean, yeah, I can recognize the different themes, but I couldn't say which themes according to their styles were written by which composers.
I do know that Geoff Zanelli likes to write tribal-type music like all the cannibal stuff for Dead Man's Chest, or the Morlock Attack from Klaus Badelt's "The Time Machine". Knowing this, I suppose I could pick out the pieces written by him for this score--now that I see what they are...alas, this is no help to you, cheesy.
Questions for me, Pirates specialist summoned !
You must know that most of the POTC themes come from... other films !
Anyway, HZ wrote most of the themes (all the Jack Sparrow themes, the main theme etc...)
I know for sure that Klaus wrote the "Underwater March" theme (which is basically from The Road To El Dorado) and the "dark" theme of the film (heard in Fog Bound, with the pan flute "tut, tut, tiiii tut" (lol).
Blake Neely wrote the theme in the "Liz on the Pearl / Parlay" sequence. It's not on OST but was on POTC 2's (and 3's) OST.
Jim Dooley wrote (with no credit... don't ask lol) the "Tortuga" theme which came back regularly in POTC 2 (he actually ripped it from a short film he had scored a couple of years earlier, Embryo).
About the Parlay track, where did you get the name for it? (Elizabeth was never referred to as Liz in the movie.) On most if not all of the bootleg scores, it is named "Parlay" and I'm fairly certain that it originated from one of the DVD menus.
For the longest time, I thought it was a theme written for Tia Dalma, as that is the track it appears in on the PotC2 OST. But then I started looking at the first one's score, and found that theme there as well.
I'm pretty sure it is not on PotC3's OST. If anywhere, it would be in "Davy Jones, the Man" found on the 2CD bootleg that recently surfaced. Perhaps, you could tell me where I might have overlooked it--or if I am even discussing the same thing you are, Hybrid.
Listen closely people...
The very beginning (kinda military drum) of Medallion Calls is from Black Hawk Down.
The "Bill Turner" theme (sort of), in the same track, when Sparrow is watching the hanged skeletons, is a segment from Pearl Harbor's Air Battle.
The film's main theme (He's A Pirates) shares many notes with The Rock's main theme.
The "Underwater March" theme is from Road To El Dorado.
The segment at 0:37 of "The Black Pearl" is basically an arrangement of the guitar section in "The Battle" from Gladiator, and the rest of the cue have strong similarities with The Battle as well.
HZ's dark theme starting Swords Crossed is from Crimson Tide (Mutiny, the very slow background theme). And in the same track, the Moonlight Serenade section with Liz "touring" on the skeleton Pearl is just from Black Hawk Down (Tribal War).
The theme in Skulls & Crossbones is from Drop Zone (Too Many Notes...), and the basic rythm starting "To The Pirates' Cave" is from Drop Zone as well (listen the beginning of Miami Jump).
The segment starting at 1:08 of Bootstrap's Boostraps is from Broken Arrow, reprised in El Dorado (the Pirates one is really identical to the El Dorado variation).
And about unreleased parts, the short "Tortuga" segment by Dooley is as I said from a 2001 short film he scored, Embryo (check samples on Jim's website).
The beginning of the Pirates Attack at the end of the film, kinda suspence sequence, is just identical to a Peacemaker cue (Nuclear Foult...).
And I'm probably missing some...
Savvy ? :P
Hybrid, thanks for all the informative information!!!
Suddenly my appreciation of this score is somewhat diminished!
Don't get me wrong, POTC is one of my favorite score of all time, I know almost every bit by heart. ;)
But this score was such a mess, done in 3 weeks (from the very first second of score to final mixing). No real options left... The result is surprisingly great ! xD
who are you, that you know so many things about Hans Zimmer and all the composers? that's amazing!! :)
Actually, the LEGO Pirates game has credits for several of the Curse of the Black Pearl tracks in the credits, and Zimmer worked on all but tracks 1, 3, 8, 9, and 10 according to it. :)
Here it is! Disc 1 01. Fog Bound 02. Jack Sparrow 03. The Medallion Calls 04. Sparrow Escapes 05. Donkey 06. Swords Crossed 07. Nice Juicy Bone 08. The Pearl Arrives 09. The Gold Calls Us 10. No Luck At All 11. Skulls 12. Parlay 13. Jack's Plan 14. Commandeering The Ship 15. Tortuga 16. The Dark Ship 17. Barbossa Is Hungry 18. Moonlight Serenade 19. Ghost Stories 20. To The Pirates' Cave 21. Sea Turtles 22. Blood Ritual 23. Will & Elizabeth 24. Broadside 25. She Goes Free
Disc 2 01. Walk The Plank 02. Jack & Elizabeth 03. Bootstrap's Bootstraps 04. Jack's Proposition 05. Underwater March 06. Something Incredibly Stupid 07. Epic Battle (Part 1) 08. Epic Battle (Part 2) 09. One Last Shot 10. Ambush At The Gallows 11. He's A Pirate 12. Drink Up Me Hearties 13. Credits Suite 14. Pirates, Day One, 4:56AM (Demo) Hans Zimmer 15. Donkey (Alternate) 16. He's A Pirate (Alternate) 17. Pirates, Day One, 4:56AM (Album Version) Hans Zimmer
There is an expanded version out, seems legit, no SFX or dialog and good sound quality.
Is there a tracklist you can provide?
No track list necessary. All you have to do is search "Curse of the Black Pearl Expanded Score" and you'll get literally like ten different variations of the score which all have been expanded by adding in music that plays on the DVD menus...Granted, you'll have to search around if you want them all, but they all contain more or less the same amount of music.
There is now a Lego game out for the Pirates Movies. The previous star wars lego games had some unreleased score tracks from the movies...so there can be hope that it is the same for lego pirates. Someone with a console should check that out :)
Well The Rock is complicated in its own way as almost all the themes Nick had originally written got rejected and replaced by HZ's ! And then it was a mess with the help of many guys on the score (HGW, Don Harper, Steven Stern, Russ Landau...) !
As for the end of KB at (ex) MV... There's not much I know... It didn't end very well between KB and some of the other MV members... Let's say it was good for everybody that he left... Especially for KB, who ended up doing very well these days... ;)
this is similar to The Rock, which in my understand is Nick glennie smiths score, with help from zimmer and harry, but poor nick didnt get the recognition he deserves.
While we are at this topic, could you please tell us what happened that led to the kicking out of badelt from rcp, there are allot of speculations, has it something to do with that badelt didnt credit other composers such as zimmer and others for their involvement in the pirates score. Please i have been wondering about that for ages. please an answer would be great,
Yeah, I'm not saying KB didn't anything in there, and as I said, it clearly has a lot of him... But he acted more like a supervising composer with HZ...
He went from studio to studio to explain what was needed to Ramin Djawadi, Geoff Zanelli etc... Helped them choosing a direction, correcting what was wrong... And of course, he did several cues on his own, like the Fog Bound opening... Zimmer helped in the same way, for instance he reworked himself Jim Dooley's Commandeering The Interceptor (second part of OST's Blood Ritual).
But there was such a short amount of time, only 2 weeks to write, that it was nearly impossible for the guys in charge (meaning HZ & KB) to do a lot themselves and make sure everybody was doing good... A bit more than 100 min to write is a lot... And I'm not talking about the last minutes reworks, with stuff edited, overdub production and all... Such a mess !!!
So, to be fair, the cover would have needed Music by Hans Zimmer & Klaus Badelt... ;)
I'm really wondering if Badelt was so "off" with this project. I think POTC is definitely a teamwork project. This is why it sometimes sounds as if each cue was from a different guy. Zimmer had an involvement in the early stages of the writing process (themes and some arrangements), and you have Badelt trying to make nearly 2 hours of music sound as a whole, running from studio to studio, arranging some bits by himself.
Of course it sounds "zimmerish" because it's MV / RCP style of samples and arrangements, but it also has some typical "Badelt" manierisms. Honestly, the real credits in the cover should be : Main themes : Hans Zimmer Score supervisor : Klaus Badelt Arrangements : The MV/RCP team
Alright, I'm not one for stirring up controversy, but I just thought I'd ask while I was thinking about it. This is a question for you Hybrid: How much of this score is Hans Zimmer? And why is Hans Zimmer listed as the official "composer" above and Klaus Badelt as "additional music" when Badelt gets the official title in the film and on the soundtrack? Is this score really Zimmer's or did Klaus Badelt have more influence on the other two films than is listed? Thanks so much for the help and I look forward to hearing what you have to say.
Brad, Hans wrote almost all the main themes... He's A Pirate, Medallion Calls, The Black Pearl, One Last Shot...
I can only think of the dark theme for the Black Pearl being Klaus...
HZ did all the tunes there, chose what should be used as samples an general orchestrations... So it's basically his score...
All the additional music guys helped a lot arranging it, and let's KB was more in charge than them... His influence remains important in this score... But ironically, scores he didn't get a lot of credit for, like Mission Impossible 2 or Gladiator, were actually more his than POTC... :P
HZ didn't get credit for legal reason (The Last Samurai) so didn't put his name on it, but it's his score anyway...
And for the sequels, KB just didn't work on them at all, but got some official credits on several stuff reused from the first film...
Hybrid, thanks for the information. But if you don't mind my asking, what were the legal reasons for keeping Zimmer's name off the score? I always was wondering about these soundtracks. So basically all of the Pirates scores are Zimmer's? I would be interested to know what kind of influence Badelt really had on the Gladiator score. Maybe you could put that in your next post in that epic Tracklist thread in the forums, Hybrid. Well, nonetheless, thanks for the info and I'll be interested to hear your further responses. Thanks.
Well it's just he had a contract to score The Last Samurai, and promised Ed Zwick & Tom Cruise he would completely focuse on their score, not moonlighting on another score... So he did Pirates "secretly"...
Of course, the joke didn't last long, and when POTC came out, Cruise came to HZ to say "Good work on POTC ;)" ! Busted !!! :)