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Score composed, Produced, Programmed, Mixed & Mastered by Tom Holkenborg
Music Productions Services By Michiel Groenveld Additional music By Antonio Di Lorio Score Conducted By Conrad Pope & Edward Trybek Score Orchestrated by Edward Trybek, Jonathan Neard, Henri Wilkenson & Tom Holkenborg Additional Synth Programing By Jacobo Trifone, Steven Silvers, Shwan Askari & Jarrod Royle-Atkins Drums, Guitar and Synths By Tom Holkenborg Score Copied by Edward Trybek & Henri Wilkenson Score Contracted By Peter Rotter Score Recorded By Alan Meyerson & Chris Fogel Score Recorded at Newman Scoring Stage Newman Stage Engineers By Mark Gebauer, Erin Michael Rettig Technical Score Engineer By Sara Barone Digital Recording By Kevin Globerman Newman Stage Managers By Damon Tedesico, Hoss Yerkband & Peter Nelson
I´ve just watched The Witcher from Netflix and I swear I heard Junkie´s drums in some action scenes... is there any explanation? I really need to know :D
Macejko
2019-12-28 00:26:23
Explanation is that you might be musically deaf, my friend.
johny555
2019-12-29 12:49:58
Listen for yourself and tell me they don´t sound similar...
https://youtu.be/2vg1T-g2KOY?t=43
(hybrid please don´t delete this, this is super important :D )
Mr.Unbreakable
2019-12-29 15:06:12
When I saw the series I noticed it! Surely the temp track was from Tom
Hybrid Soldier
2019-12-29 16:30:52
So ?
Drum Samples are... drum samples... lol
Iamtommie44
2019-12-29 17:50:02
@johny555 why is this so important for you?
johny555
2019-12-29 21:47:57
@Iamtommie44 Because I find it very interesting to hear such a unique sound from a different composer that has no ties to RCP or to Tom and I would love to know how could they replicate it, since Tom didn´t release his drum samples (don´t count the loops, it´s not them)
@Mr.Unbreakable- great, I am not the only one who is musically deaf :D
Joshua
2019-12-29 22:16:01
Tom released some of his drum samples earlier this year on Sounds.com called Desert Dystopian. Any composer can pick them up.
johny555
2019-12-29 22:24:33
I know, but it´s not them, those are only loops... in the series, they regularly use these drums in different tempos, rhythms, structures and so on like you normally do if you own that sample library
Joshua
2019-12-29 22:53:37
You do know you can take those samples and loops and make your own Kontakt instruments out of them. There are also single hits in the pack as well.
Great news! Simon Franglen is scoring Avatar 2 & 3. I've been waiting two years for this news, and after I heard Pandora: The World of Avatar - it became clear, that Franglen is the only person who is able to recreate the style of James Horner. I'm glad. Avatar music in safe hands! Thanks to Cameron for this appointment, and it's a good thing Tom won't do it.
P.s I like Tom, but Avatar obviously is not his league
Scorefan
2019-12-19 05:27:59
Well, Tom has proved he is capable to score many kind of films. So it could be a great oportunity to show his skills. But well, Cameron goes safety and for me Franglen will do arrangements and variants from Horner's music and if he write new music it will be minor.
MiB
2019-12-19 15:15:19
He did a new avatar themes in Pandora: The World of Avatar , and they are awesome. Sure that score will be badass))
mpolonest123
2019-12-19 16:16:44
Haven’t listened to Magnificent 7 yet so I can’t really speak to Simon Franglen’s abilities, but he has worked with James Horner for quite a while, and I did enjoy his arrangements for Pandora so this is definitely not a bad choice (as long it’s not a rehash score).
Admittedly I’m disappointed that Tom isn’t attached to these films. Mortal Engines and Alita showed huge improvements in his writing and ability to interweave themes intelligently throughout the underscores. I feel like Avatar would have been a great opportunity to have him expand his styles and grow as a composer. As long as he keeps collaborating with solid directors like Cameron and Peter Jackson I’ll be happy.
Edmund Meinerts
2019-12-19 17:43:21
I think the odds that Franglen's Avatars end up fairly rehashy are quite high, but that's not the worst possible option. I'd rather have Franglen extend Horner's score for the first (which I adore, by the way) than, say, have someone from RCP come in and blow up the foundations and start over.
If the first Avatar score is At World's End, then I guess Franglen will produce something along the lines of Dead Men Tell No Tales. (As long as we don't have to suffer any On Stranger Tideses...)
Hybrid Soldier
2019-12-19 17:53:23
He got the job.
Now let's see if he survives it !
johny555
2019-12-20 11:41:49
I have nothing against Franglen, but in my opinion, he will be replaced very soon...
johny555
2019-12-20 11:46:27
but according to Film Music Reporter, Franglen is just composing SONGS for the Avatar sequels, not the actual score... we´ll see
MiB
2019-12-20 15:14:58
Lol, the article on filmmusicreporter was updated, true. Not so long Franglen was the composer of avatar sequels. Sad if he gets replaced
MiB
2019-12-20 15:19:01
Interesting, is there are any chances that instead of Franglen Hans will do the Avatars? How do you think, guys?
Hybrid Soldier
2019-12-21 00:06:38
Hans will not score Avatar. That's probably the only 100% sure thing around ! lol
MiB
2019-12-21 00:59:45
If Cameron was working with Hans's guy (Holkenborg), there's a small chance that Hans might be involved. Or does the Hybrid know something specific why Hans can't make an Avatar?
mpolonest123
2019-12-21 02:06:15
Ah ok, this makes much more sense. Franglen is too small a name to helm such a big franchise (god knows how many films are coming up) from the studios perspective. If Holkenborg does indeed do it I wonder if he will be committed to the entire slate of sequels or just the first one.
BC
2019-12-21 05:20:45
@Hybrid
Is there any particular reason that Hans isn't down to score Avatar? I'm not complaining about it or anything, but you seem super sure he's not at all interested and I'm curious about why he isn't.
Shince Thomas
2019-12-21 13:40:06
James Cameron is very selective when it comes to the scores for his films and his style and ideas are different from Hans.
MiB
2019-12-21 13:50:00
"his style and ideas are different from Hans"...but similar to junkie xl? lol) really? this is funny :)
Mephariel
2019-12-21 18:16:38
Because Hans Zimmer doesn't want to continue other composer's work?
Zimmer likes to do his own thing. If he scores Avatar, he will have to basically expand Horner's work.
mpolonest123
2019-12-21 18:53:17
And you could argue that James Cameron is experimental director. From his collabs with Brad Fiedel to James Horner he has always used more experimental music in his films.
The album is 18 songs and the Terminator Theme is powerful than ever
Knight
2019-10-31 16:23:08
I have to say that I prefer Lorne's Terminator score to Tom's. More themes with melody and the Fiedel end title theme is more sophisticated. Track 16 and 18 of this one is pretty good though
BC
2019-11-01 06:14:02
Just got home from an IMAX screening. Really enjoyed the movie, but it's a Dark Phoenix situation with the sound mix where the score is deep into the background where it almost can't be heard in scenes. "Rev 9", "The Wall" and most of "For John" were completely lost.
@Knight I agree. I really enjoy Tom's rendition and understand that he stripped it back to service the lean, mean nature of the movie, but Lorne's was meatier and had a little more going on.
Highlight for me so far is "The Wall". Love the incorporation of the alarm at the wall. Rev-9's theme is perfect, that low, sinister thrum. Simple and fitting.
MrZimmerFan
2019-11-01 09:44:06
Altough i like Balfe's work in Genisys (the weakest is Salvation), i dig it Tom's work, is the most referencial to the original in the synths apects, specially from someone who loves the original Brad Fiedel score in The Terminator.
mpolonest123
2019-11-01 09:46:00
Maybe my opinion will change once I see the film (much like Alita) but I’m not too crazy about this right now.
The positives: Dani’s guitar theme is beautiful and the way it is incorporated in the end titles suite is amazing, Rev-9’s motif works extraordinarily well, Brad Fiedel’s themes are used effectively (with a cool callback to T2)
The negs: The action music really feels like stock Holkenborg, closer to Tomb Raider and Deadpool than Mortal Engines (exceptions being The Wall and For John), lack of interesting underscore, and personally I was hoping for a more electronic approach akin to the style of the first two.
MrZimmerFan
2019-11-01 09:53:35
I hate Deadpool (weird me, because i like a lot Tomb Raider and Rise of an Empire) and consider OK Mad Max and Divergent.
But when comes to Mortal Engines (an i wasn't expecting Dark Fate sound like that) and Alita are really good.
mpolonest123
2019-11-01 10:02:35
For some reason I thought Tom was going to use a more electronic sound for the film, I was genuinely surprised that the score is as orchestral/acoustic as it is.
But yeah, I’m definitely not a fan of Deadpool or Tomb Raider. I think his collabs with Conrad Pope have produced his best material thus far, especially when he has a great orchestrator who can flesh out his material.
Shince Thomas
2019-11-01 15:07:36
Tom's theme brings a new flare to the original, but in someway I prefer Lorne's version.The guitar based theme is a fresh take and completely did not expect it to be this acoustic.
HunterTech
2019-11-01 22:41:51
@BC I actually thought Dark Phoenix's score had a pretty decent presence in the sound mix. The SFX overwhelmed it at parts, sure, but I definitely heard enough there to recall stuff from the film when listening to the OST.
Ahmad
2019-11-01 23:11:33
Dark Phoenix’s mix was a disaster. Effects were overbearingly loud while the music was too quiet. Obviously you can tell which cue is playing but most of HZ’s work was thrown out the window in favor of SFX. “Reckless” is a clear example.
BC
2019-11-03 01:43:29
@Ahmad
And "Frameshift". It was actually nicely mixed until when the guitars hit for the Phoenix theme and it got pushed aside for the SFX and it loses a lot of it's power because of it.
MagicLoop
2019-11-04 10:41:02
mpolonest123, just FYI, Conrad Pope did not orchestrate any of Tom's scores, he just conducted the orchestras at the scoring stages doing as always a brilliant job with those great musicians. Every orchestral writing improvement (fully orchestrated) has been made internally by Tom and his in-house assistants.
MrZimmerFan
2019-11-04 11:47:00
Pope even conducted this one.
I think many people give more credit to Pope more than Tom and his orchertrators (some of them work with people like McCreary or Goransson), yes, Pope is great orchertrator, but many of the hightlights from Mortal Engines or Alita, probably, are from Tom and his collaborators.
MagicLoop
2019-11-05 12:57:26
Very true, MrZimmerFan. The whole credit must go to Tom and his internal assistants. Every cue gets completely written, orchestrated and programmed in their DAW sessions when they produce all the mock-ups. Then at the end every cue gets simply transcribed by the orchestrators (external team) from midi into musical notation, but they are already completed from the start.
Hybrid Soldier
2019-11-05 13:03:12
Yeah but orchestrators can add colors too... Like they can go "look, your string writing here with 10 violins, it works with synths, but it's never gonna sound good live, let's try that instead..."
Anyway orchestrator can go from co-composer to simple transcriber... Depends what material they have to work with.
MrZimmerFan
2019-11-05 13:52:27
But Pope isn't orchestrator neither Alita, Mortal Engines or this one.
People give credit only because is acredited as conductor, if he was acredited as orchestrator, the thing would be very different.
mpolonest123
2019-11-06 16:37:24
My mistake, for some reason I thought Pope had done some orchestration as well. I do remember Tom mentioning in Studio Time that Pope had some input in terms of improving the orchestrations or at least giving some feedback, which I do think shows immensely in Alita and Mortal Engines.
MrZimmerFan
2019-11-06 18:23:04
The conductor can give some feedback to the composer and viceversa, but the orchestrations are enterely from the orchestrators
It's a real shame that Holkenborg's rendition of Desert Suite from T2 didn't make it into the album. That was the score's biggest standout moment to me.
I loved that Junkie XL dug up Brad Fiedel's old T2 synths for the tracks "Terminated" and "Terminator". I honestly thought that the sound designers just took those metal heartbeat sections from T2's score.
The music was actually pretty good. He came up with a nice new arrangement of Brad Fiedel's Terminator Theme and gave Rev-9 a new motif instead of the same motif originally used for the T-1000 but used for every villain Terminator since.
MrZimmerFan
2019-10-24 21:06:46
I don't remember the T-1000 motif in Genisys and much less in Salvation. Maybe the arrangement in T3 by Beltrami (or is a new motif?)
BC
2019-10-25 02:05:37
Nice. Really looking forward to hearing it in the IMAX mix next week. This and Lorne's 6 Underground are pretty much the only 2 scores I'm excited for the rest of the year.
DT-2017
2019-10-25 08:39:08
Mr. Zimmerman - you won't necessarily hear it on the OST for Salvation and it's not in the film, but it was included in the sessions, used before the 'Arnold' snippet. As for Genisys, it's bold as brass at the start of the John Connor hospital fight. It's also used for the Matt Smith Skynet character. The T-3000 motif afterward is a slightly adjusted version. Lorne Balfe did confirm that this was the intention. T3 has a brass version used in the Future War sequence.
It's also used quite frequently in The Sarah Connor Chronicles and even got a remix in the Terminator Salvation game.
Seems like this is going to be a Dark Phoenix situation where we don't have a tracklist, release date or cover until the week the movie releases.
I wonder if it's because Miller is still locking down the final cut and Tom's still scoring. Either way, definitely looking forward to this and the movie.
MrZimmerFan
2019-10-17 08:20:48
Like most of the releases
MrZimmerFan
2019-10-21 17:58:19
Tom said in his Twitter: 'Details very soon'
Altough, is only a week away
MrZimmerFan
2019-10-21 18:00:22
And also, be prepared for more Studio Time for the score
DT-2017
2019-10-21 19:45:55
The movie is out this Wednesday in some territories.
MrZimmerFan
2019-10-21 19:58:48
But the scores comes out in 1th November
BC
2019-10-22 05:54:17
We'll likely get final details towards the end of the week or early next week. I guess I'm just a little surprised that it's taken this long. The movie had surprise screenings either yesterday or the day before, so it seems like everything's pretty final.
MrZimmerFan
2019-10-22 10:11:30
Think about Gemini Man, the score come out the same day as the movie (in that case, 11th October), and the details come the same week.
There’s a 3-minute clip of the truck chase on YouTube and I have to say the score sounds pretty cool. A lot of string/percussion work with an awesome electronic motif for the new “Terminator” model. Also, Brad Fiedel’s theme is back. ;)
I'm very excited about this soundtrack, I bet that the soundtrack will release on Halloween this month. I have a feeling about Terminator, Dark Fate score might sound like Mad Max Fury Road or something new like that. I hope terminator dark fate should bring terminator main theme from the first movie or second movie, it's would be cool to put in the beginning movie.
Anonymous
2019-10-04 18:25:04
brad fiedel’s terminator theme is in every single film
Hybrid Soldier
2019-10-04 21:59:33
It's not used in Salvation. Briefly in T3 (End Title ?) and there's a lot of Fiedel used in Lorne's.
johny555
2019-10-04 22:02:00
it was used in Salvation, two times :D
mpolonest123
2019-10-04 22:09:11
The actual melody isn’t used in Salvation, just the “dun-dun-dundun”
mpolonest123
2019-10-04 22:10:30
^ Unless that was tracked in....
Anonymous
2019-10-04 22:11:59
salvation still has it even if it’s not on the ost. it’s in the beginning of teh film
Scorefan
2019-10-05 23:18:00
Ummmmm Tomo scored Alita Battle Angel and now Terminato Dark Fate. Is this a posibility Tom score Avatar sequels?
DT-2017
2019-10-06 09:50:36
Salvation just used the 'du-dun-dun-du-dun' part - in the opening titles, the Arnold reveal scene and in the finale. The actual theme itself is never used and apparently McG didn't want it used either. T3 had it but only in the end credits. Genisys at least used it in the opening of the film.
I get the feeling we'll get more arrangements of it this time around as well as a 'main title' arrangement.
Edmund Meinerts
2019-10-06 10:13:40
Scorefan, I agree with you, it really feels like Cameron is using these projects to let JXL "audition" for the Avatar sequels. Alita wasn't a bad score and I think Terminator is a good fit for his style, but I still really hope Cameron goes a different direction with Avatar (hint: James Newton Howard). I don't think JXL has what it takes to follow in the footsteps of Horner.
MrZimmerFan
2019-10-06 11:33:02
Edmund, Alita have many moments when you think Horner composed that.
johny555
2019-10-06 11:36:14
Question of the day: would JXL use Horner's famous trumpet motif? :D
mpolonest123
2019-10-06 14:26:57
I wouldn’t be surprised if James Cameron was using these projects to test JXL’s ability to handle big budget films, as well as building a professional relationship with him. Seeing as how he only worked with two prior composers in the past, it would be an interesting collaboration.
And no, JXL is definitely no James Horner. But seeing how his involvement with Peter Jackson turned out Mortal Engines (the best score he has done so far imo), I would love to hear what he could deliver when working with a perfectionist like James Cameron.
Mr.Unbreakable
2019-10-06 16:17:34
A good option would be to sign James Newton Howard and Hans Zimmer, but this time Newton Howard is the one who makes up the majority of the movie.
Hybrid Soldier
2019-10-06 16:23:10
Hans is an absolute no go for Avatar 2 ! Trust me...
mpolonest123
2019-10-06 16:35:43
@Hybrid Good! Considering there are about 50 sequels to Avatar in production I would rather have Hans working on a variety of projects, instead of devoting his time to those. JNH would be a cool choice, I think he has the chops to turn out some amazing themes.
And while on the topic of JXL, apparently Snyder is pushing to get his cut of Justice League completed/released. I wonder if there is a possibility of us finally getting to hear Junkie’s score finally, or at least having him actually get to finish whatever he started.
Mr.Unbreakable
2019-10-06 17:01:18
Why is it that Hans doesn't want to make Avatar?
Anonymous
2019-10-07 03:42:01
because hes worked with tony scott, ridley scott, michael bay and terrence malick. directors with a reputation about their music. he doesn't need to work with james cameron lmao
Miralsice
2019-10-07 15:03:27
How about that Tim Miller hired Junkie again, since they had worked together on Deadpool and Tom write music for one episode of "Love Death and Robots" produced by Tim. And don't forget about Sonic live action where Miller also worked as executive producer. I think they are good friends, don't they?
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