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One of this score's best and most underrated moments, especially in the context of the film, is the introduction of the Kraken's theme in "Row to Tia Dalma". The tense buildup while Gibbs describes the creature's horrors, then the brief pause as he names it, followed by the theme in the absolute lowest registers of the orchestra, quiet, but so so so menacing and also just SUPER FUCKING COOL.<br><br>It gives me goosebumps every time, in a *dialogue scene*. That is incredibly good musical storytelling.Edmund: And posted their one-sentence review of it on the Hans Zimmer fan site.Anything missed from the official release?oh damn really? huh that would be cool. even with the ultimate edition there’s still deleted scenes and I wish they were put on the Blu ray.<br><br>it plays during the scene after the knightmare when Clark is looking through the polaroids that say judge jury executioner on them. i don’t remember if that’s an extended scene or not as I’ve only seen the theatrical cut once in theaters. one and done lol"Chicken Run really makes you FEEL like you're in a concentration camp." - IGN
I guess it comes from a deleted scene where Jesse Eisenberg gets playful with his dinner. Rumor has it it's gonna be included in the Snyder Cut.I love the notion of Barack Obama and IGN teaming up to review 20 year old film scores.Smoothly done soundtrack. IGN - 10/10what the hell is Quaker steak and lube????I disagree on Catwoman. I love Zimmer's theme and I thought it is one of his most underrated themes.
Loved the new tracks!<br><br>Hans & Chris really did something special.<br><br>I enjoyed the Tenet score, but honestly Ludwig's work doesn't compare to Zimmer's. I just hope they work together again instead of Chris choosing Ludwig as his main collaborator from now on.Agreed.<br><br>I don’t know, TDKR feels a little oppressive to me in comparison with BB and TDK , probably as a result of Nolan’s musical tastes veering away from symphonic to more abstract. Reading the new book on Nolan gives me the impression that he has a very similar approach to his music as he does his filmmaking. With that said though, TDKR is still a solid conclusion to the franchise. Bane’s theme is excellent and the culmination of the various “Bat-Themes” do feel well earned. Catwoman’s theme is solid, but for some reason is dropped from most of the movie in favor of the repeating two-note phrase.<br><br>@Moggyman<br>Honestly I feel as if JNH’s work on the first two Hunger Games sequels showed a strong improvement in writing and theme building. The last score was a bit too much of a pastiche, but orchestrally a stronger fit than the first one. And “Crimes of Grindelwald” is easily one of the best sequel scores in the past few years (alongside Star Wars and HTTYD). Unfortunately we still don’t have a good album situation for that though. -_-Counterpoint: I liked Crimes of Grindelwald more than the first Fantastic Beasts. And forget Hanging Tree - "Air Raid Drill" from the first and "Sewer Attack" from the second Mockingjay are the best cues from that series. Plus, JNH honestly hasn't worked on that many sequels so we don't really have enough to go on here. <br><br>I think having JNH on board for Catwoman would have done wonders for this score. Hans' theme is okay, but feels like a bit of an afterthought compared to Bane.TDK & TDKR have amazing theme suites.<br><br>But as for the scores in film, they don't even get close to Batman Begins !I like Tom but idk he's gone downhill in my book. Alita was boring, i was over the moon excited for Terminator cause that was a perfect mix and it was disappointed big time. I'd love to hear Steve Jablonsky tackle that and get back to being as great as he used to, he has been phoning it in big time lately
Ok, before I eat my words, JNH did create the Hanging Tree in Mockingjay p1 which was good, but nothing else other than that in the sequels.For being the so called "weakest", it's very good. And if you think that Bane's theme is repetitive, I would say the same about the Joker's theme in TDK (to me they are both good though). <br><br>Now in all fairness, JNH could have probably added good material to the score since he's a genius, but I personally think he doesn't do well on sequels. Sure, in TDK he gave harvey dent a theme that resonated with his character (but was similar to material already used in BB). Yet, if you look at his work in the hunger games, its seems to me that he couldn't bring something both new and compelling to the sequels as he did in the first movie. I will agree with you that Batman Begins has the best music of the series though.After re-listening to this one, it's clearly the weakest of the trilogy. Of course it's not bad, the new themes are pretty good (though I think Bane's theme is a bit too repetitive and dry at times), there's still emotional moments, but JNH's absence really left a hole in this score.<br><br>I get to an extent that's the point, that all of Bruce's potential for a happy life is gone, but even the emotional tracks to me have nowhere near the emotional resonance that JNH's themes brought to the films. <br><br>"Come With Me" is the best example, where the slow emotional Selina Kyle chords just don't leave much of an impact. Definitely could have used JNH's "Courthouse Pt. 1" or the main theme from "Bruce Left For Dead" to emphasize Bruce's giving up of a quiet life. <br><br>Of course I still appreciate the way the 2 note motif is developed into a theme of its own, as well as the score as a whole, but then you get tracks like "Many Forms of Immortality" which just emphasize how much more effective the thematic work in Batman Begins was.It could also be Tom, who worked on Run All Night, and is already an established DC composer<br>Either way I'll be happyI lowkey think James is gonna score the Black Adam movie. it's the same director from Jungle Cruise so I'm sure he'll be brought along for it

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Hans ZimmerLorne BalfePaul MounseyStephen Hilton
ComposerComposerAdditional MusicAdditional Arrangements
Kung Fu Panda 3
Label: Sony Masterworks
Length: 69'17 (Score: 66'12) rating:        Not yet rated
Fans rating:     rate at 1 out of 5 rate at 2 out of 5 rate at 3 out of 5 rate at 4 out of 5 rate at 5 out of 5   2/5 (17652 votes)
  1. Oogway's Legacy (2:00)
    Hans Zimmer
  2. Hungry For Lunch (1:15)
    Hans Zimmer (John Powell)
  3. The Power Of Chi (4:12)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe (John Powell)
  4. The Arrival Of Kai (2:11)
    Hans Zimmer, Paul Mounsey (Imagine Dragons)
  5. A New Father (3:13)
    Hans Zimmer, Paul Mounsey (John Powell)
  6. The Hall Of Heroes (1:15)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Paul Mounsey (Imagine Dragons, John Powell)
  7. The Legend Of Kai (4:01)
    Hans Zimmer, Paul Mounsey (Imagine Dragons, John Powell)
  8. The Panda Village (3:39)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
  9. Mei Mei's Ribbon Dance (2:05)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Nathan Wang
  10. Jaded (3:54)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Paul Mounsey (Imagine Dragons, John Powell)
  11. How To Be A Panda (1:53)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe (John Powell)
  12. Portrait Of Mom (1:48)
    Lorne Balfe
  13. Po Belongs (2:52)
    Hans Zimmer, Paul Mounsey (Imagine Dragons)
  14. Kai Is Closer (3:15)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Paul Mounsey (Imagine Dragons)
  15. Two Fathers (3:11)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Paul Mounsey
  16. The Battle Of Legends (3:31)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe (Imagine Dragons, John Powell)
  17. The Spirit Realm (3:18)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe, Paul Mounsey (Imagine Dragons, John Powell)
  18. The Dragon Warrior (2:51)
    Hans Zimmer, Lorne Balfe
  19. Passing The Torch (4:15)
    Hans Zimmer (John Powell)
  20. Father And Son (3:00)
    Lorne Balfe
  21. Kung Fu Fighting (Celebration Time) (2:59)
    Shanghai Roxi Musical Studio Choirs, Metro Voices London, Carl Douglas, Hans Zimmer, Al Clay
  22. Try (4:00)
    Patrick Brasca, Jay Chou, Vincent Fang, Celeste Syn, Hans Zimmer, Hans Chen, Josh Lo, Al Clay
  23. Kung Fu Fighting - The Vamps (3:05)
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Mike reply Replies: 12 || 2016-08-29 15:35:43
Gotta be honest here...while I know that the mantra on this site is "credits don't really matter," it's still nice for me to know that Hans did NOT just phone this in like the initial credit listing made me suggest. Not only did he end up doing the excellent finale of the film on his own (with more complex orchestration than usual for him!), but he also did a very impressive and genuinely bombastic John Powell impression. I had no idea he could even write something like "Hungry for Lunch"! He just doesn't really write like that, at least in 2016. Props, Hans.

This really is, I think, the last time I trust initial credits to say Zimmer didn't do anything. I was wrong on Inception, I was wrong here, and we were ALL wrong on Batman v Superman. Zimmer usually does more than we'd think.

rockhound2016-08-29 23:58:15
i love this score so much. my favourite rcp score in a very long time and its really nice to see, that also hans has solo tracks, which have great melodies and an exciting orchestration. the music is adventurous, funny, emotional, exciting and with a fantastic chinese touch. there is not one bad cue. every track has at least one great moment. i know, hans likes to create new things, but i prefer him when he sticks with the traditional style of score. he shows that he can still do it.

Mike2016-08-30 00:11:12
All true. His solo cues in here, and even the "tuneful" sections of the Batman theme from Batman v Superman, are a refreshing return to "broader" writing that it feels like he's almost abandoned since working with Chris Nolan. I honestly wondered whether he'd ever write more "traditional" stuff again, and those two scores tell me he still has it in him. :)

rockhound2016-08-30 00:30:45
im not the biggest fan of his scores for the nolan movies. Inception worked for me in the movie, but the sound of this score and the theme itself is not something i like to hear on cd. Interstellar is even worse and failed for me for the most part in the movie. the music is overpowering, too simplistic and just added nothing in many important scenes like the goodbye of father and daughter or the big docking scene. in my opinion the movie is not well scored.

Kung Fu Panda 3 in comparison is....the music enhanced the movie and every scene is perfectly scored. emotion and excitement when it needed but never too much. really great score, especially for a third installment of a franchise. does not happen often...

Mike2016-08-30 00:42:03
I like his Nolan scores, but I have gotten tired of his "Nolan approach" (i.e., everything is a short motif that repeats with added layers and volume), cause it's embodied his modus operandi for the last decade almost. Sure, he used that approach before Nolan, but after Nolan, he not only went to town with it and scored most stuff that way, but even espoused it as being preferable to his older stuff like Gladiator.

So yeah, back to what I's nice that he's broken out of his Nolanisms just a bit. :P It's really refreshing. I hope he continues to do so.

Hybrid Soldier2016-08-30 13:12:49
Another cool cue that's just Hans is the second half of Jaded, which is the Panda Training... ;)

Mike2016-08-30 14:11:34
Again I say: props, Hans! I didn't know he did orchestrations like this anymore. I did always think Jaded sounded Hansy, but I figured LB helped out with some of the trumpety flourishes. Guess not!

Mike2016-08-30 14:22:31
So wow...I guess Zimmer really did more here than on KFP 2, no? If he did Hungry for Lunch, the second half of Jaded, Passing the Torch, Oogway's Legacy (credits), and probably one or two more cues.... Whereas he only had like 2 completely solo cues in KFP 2, right?

It's funny, whenever I learn that Zimmer did a sizable amount of a score after thinking otherwise, I feel like I should apologize to him. xD

rockhound2016-08-30 15:36:43
i really thought, the second half of Jaded is by lorne, but ofc its really nice to know, that its also by hans. its one of my favourite parts in the whole score. greath mix of synths and solo instruments with a nice asian flair. and the motif/theme is also fantastic. straight old school rcp action style. it sounds like hans enjoyed working on this score with all this cool ideas and orchestrations by him...

Mike2016-08-30 16:04:54
Hybrid, does Lorne being producer / Oscar Senen being orchestrator here have anything to do with the more "dynamic" (and, quite frankly, Lorne-like) sound of Hans' cues? Like, do they suggest to Zimmer that he should write his cues in a certain style?

commonP2016-08-31 07:01:11
Do we have also a curious case of role reversal where it was Hans' arranging Lorne's theme! =p

(look at the credits for portrait of mom/village trek - neither have kfp1/2 themes)

Mike2016-08-31 15:45:27
The credit above is just Balfe...?

At any rate, I suppose it's possible...Hybrid has said many times Hans will rework cues the other guys have done. It's not unthinkable, even if we don't usually hear about it.

MaggiPower2020-10-04 04:29:13
Mike, i know this is a stupidly late reply, but what did you mean by "I was wrong on Inception" ?

Mike (OTM) reply Replies: 0 || 2017-08-09 23:00:45
I've said this before, I think, but Hans' writing is so dynamic in this score. Panda Training (second half of Jaded) doesn't sound like his current output, stylistically. I wish he'd go for this type of thing more often than he seems to have in recent years.

Zimson reply Replies: 1 || 2017-04-06 00:33:59
I'm surprised to see that Paul Mounsey isn't credited for The Battle Of Legends. Since much of the rhythmic parts are very reminiscent of Jaded, I'm going to assume Hans did most of the track. The parts that feature Kai's theme and the ribbon dance theme also point towards Hans.
I can see Lorne doing the parts from 1:20 to 1:40 and 2:19 to 2:33. Latter also appeared in Ricksaw Chase from the second movie, though that one seems to have been a HZ/PM effort.
I could be totally wrong of course.

commonP2017-07-19 01:06:53
Most of the score sounds like HZ tbh, it's really hard to hear where PM came in.

Anonymous reply Replies: 14 || 2016-02-01 04:51:18
The music seams to have lost it's soal. Probably because they took John Powell out. So sad. He's such a great composer.

John Powell lover #12016-02-15 21:20:51
I know I'm going to get a lot of love saying this on a Hans Zimmer Web site, but I think John Powell is a lot better than him. Sorry.

vced2016-02-15 21:38:24
Powell's technical and composition abilities are far beyond zimmer's and he's badly missed in this score. But zimmer isn't that bad, he has some good themes sometimes and is unfairly bashed.

That said this is clearly a lorne balfe score with some paul mounsey extras so maybe it's balfe you should be criticising. I don't think zimmer wrote much here.

Hybrid Soldier2016-02-15 22:48:32
And Hans can do things Powell will never ever be able to do...

That's what it is, they are just different people... lol

rockhound2016-02-15 23:10:23
i miss powells over the top style not one single second in this score. the orchestration is playful but at the same time straight forward without useless mickey mousing. the themes are fantastic and beautiful arranged and the asian style is perfectly incorporated in the western themes. tacks like The Panda Village, Oogway's Legacy, Mei Mei's Ribbon Dance, Portrait Of Mom, The Dragon Warrior and Father And Son are true highlights for me. i love this score alot.

Ds2016-02-15 23:26:26
KFP3 is definitely a good score with really nice oriental flavour (more so than the previous ones), but I still KFP2 is a far greater score. KFP2 had everything an adventure score could hope for, it was intense, epic, fresh, over the top in every possible sense.

vced2016-02-16 18:35:52
KFP2 was Balfe and Powell beasting it. Hard to top. Balfe can't quite get the same results by himself in #3 but it's still not bad.

Dragon warrior is a gem of a track.

rockhound I think there's plenty of mouse courtesy of mouseny's arrangements in this score.

Valka22016-02-17 18:41:30
John Powell's music seems to have a lot more integrity that Zimmer's.I like Hans Zimmer's old Soundtracks. His new ones (Like Anonymous said) seem to lack a soal.
John Powell didn't help write the Kung Fu Panda Soundtrack, because he's limiting the number of scores he composes in a year so he can spend more time with his wife and son.

Anonymous2016-02-17 18:42:33
Hans is better.

Pianomag2016-02-17 18:45:30
I'm a Powell fan and a Hans Zimmer Fan, so I know their styles well. But when I listen to Kung Fu Panda 1 & 2, I here more of John Powell's style than Zimmer's. The choir seems to have that same unique voice that appears in every Powell score, and the themes all have that same vibe. The trumpets are the same too.

Valka22016-02-17 18:48:11
I hear a lot of Hans Zimmer in the 3rd kung Fu Panda though.

Pianomag2016-02-17 18:48:52

vced2016-02-17 22:16:45
I hear a lot of Hans Zimmer in the 3rd kung Fu Panda though.

Where? I don't hear any. I hear powell's mice and balfe's action style. He said it himself "if it sounds like me it's probably me" and none of it sounds like him.

But I think calling the music is soulless is unfair. i just think the balfe powell combo worked better than balfe on his own. It doesn't mean this score is bad actually it works very well with the film if you go and see it.

Mike2016-02-19 16:53:37
You don't hear any Zimmer? I'll admit his influence is secondary, but it's definitely there. "Oogway's Legacy" is obvious, but listen to "Jaded." The second half of that has aggressive string writing that's the classic staple of Hans ("Po Finds the Truth"), and even though he didn't write the tune, Hans obvious incorporated the Kai theme into cues like "The Arrival of Kai." That piece has Zimmer mannerisms through and through. "The Power of Chi" and "The Legend of Kai" also bring to mind Zimmer's "Pirate Lord of Singapore" material. The last part of "The Dragon Warrior" also sounds quite Zimmerish to me.

Trust me, I get the huge influence Balfe had on this score. I also get the feeling, like you, that Zimmer probably wasn't *all that invested.* But Zimmer's definitely here.

Aaron Christian2017-03-02 18:59:25
Anonymous, AGREED!!! John Powell is my life.

Berkian Warior reply Replies: 5 || 2016-07-14 00:59:42
Just watched it for the first time. Don't waste your time. It's one of the dumbest movies I've ever seen. Seriously? Could they not think of a better villain than a ox with drago hair?

Mike2016-07-14 01:50:08
Haven't seen it yet, but if what you say is right, that's a shame. The second one particularly was quite good.

Berkian Warior2016-07-14 18:05:31
+ If anyone wants to know what happens in the movie in case there’s a 4th, I’ll summarize it (WARNING!! SPOILERS AHEAD!!):
An ox named Kai comes back from the dead to kill Po for power (Like I’ve never heard that one before). The only way to defeat Kai is to become a master of Chi, (The oriental version of the force from Star Wars). Po is reunited with his family, and his father agrees to teach Po the power of Chi. Po learns his father lied and doesn’t really know Chi at all, so Po decides to fight Kai, the bad guy, with his fat panda family. Po and Kai end up dying and go to the spirit world and fight there. There, Po becomes a master of Chi by learning he can be a dragon warrior, a son, and a friend all at once (A hard thing to figure out, especially for the most powerful panda on earth). Po ends up killing Kai while in the belly of a magical dragon he’s created using Chi. Po comes back from the dead and becomes more powerful than master Shifu (My previous favorite character), and ends up becoming Shifu’s master.
Po can still be taken down by tigress in the end (Something that always confused me throughout the series, seeing how he’s the dragon warrior). And they all lived happily ever after, The End.
The story wasn’t too bad, but there were about a million things that didn’t make sense in the movie, and there were too many pointless stupid scenes.
I’m not a hater, I’m a lover. Meaning, I loved the other movies a lot, and am sad to see the series die this way.a

Ds2016-07-14 19:57:50
WTF? I thought it was as good as the previous ones, with absolutely great visuals and music, as well as touching scenes. And loads of fun.
What's the point of telling the whole story?

Berkian Warior2016-07-15 22:43:02
The movie had some good humor,and the Soundtrack isn't bad. I have to disagree though, the visuals were far less detailed than even the 2nd movie. Kai's eyes literally looked pasted on his face, instead of being part of his face. The movie had a lot of color, but it wasn't breakthrough technology like the others.
When I watch a movie, I expect quality acting, epic battle sequences, touching moments, frightening villains, and good story structure (The later is especially important to me, being a writer). The acting wasn't terrible, and there were a few touching moments with Po and his father.
Even thought the movie let me down, Dreamworks is still the best.

Aaron Christian2017-03-02 18:57:21
I agree. The movie wasn't that great. The sound Track didn't have enough emotion.

commonP reply Replies: 6 || 2017-01-06 03:55:30
The writing in Hungry For Lunch reminds me of the Chariot Race from Prince of Egypt.

Hans lively action style is fun. He should do it more often.

Mike2017-03-01 03:00:47
I completely agree. He's good at this style when he uses it. I get the feeling with Hans that he doesn't particularly like revisiting "old styles" though, since he wants to do new things. The "Chariot Race" style is a vestige of Hans' musical past, and he doesn't need to write stuff like that anymore. So the best we have is an occasional cue like "Hungry for Lunch" where Zimmer does the unexpected.

Coincidentally, I was listening to this score again, and it sounds way more consistent to me than it did a year ago. I used to think the Hans, Lorne, Mounsey, and Powell stuff clashed a bit too much, but it doesn't hit me that way anymore. Still, Kung Fu Panda 2 is the best as far as tonal consistency. :)

Tim2017-03-01 13:42:53
It seems obvious that the majority of the score is Lornes. He is even credited solely for writing the father and son theme which is featured a lot ! Why didn't he get credited as a composer on the score ?

Mike2017-03-01 19:22:24
Tim, yeah, I agreed with your thought on that a while back. Now I've accepted that, Father and Son theme aside, we really don't know what Lorne did, because Hungry for Lunch, Jaded (second half), Passing the Torch, and the new theme for the Panda Village were all Zimmer according to the credits (and yes, the Panda Village theme is Hans, because it appears in another track with no Lorne credit). A lot of those *sound* Lorneish, but they weren't written by him. So point is...we don't know. Yeah, there's a lot of Lorne Balfe here, but I'm gonna hold off on percentages until something definitive comes along. ;)

Tim2017-03-02 13:29:56
The Panda Village is credited to Lorne . It's on his website .

rockhound2017-03-02 16:48:52
that means nothing. blake neely has the main title theme from The Pacific also on his website and its by hans AND him, not just him.

Mike2017-03-02 17:24:09
Tim, you misunderstand what I meant. Yes, the Panda Village track, the whole thing, as used in the movie and heard on the CD, is credited to Lorne Balfe. What I'm saying is, the *tune* heard in that track was originally done by Hans, according to the various cuesheet credits, because it also shows up in the Spirit Realm Part 1 cue on the complete score, which does not have a Lorne Balfe credit anywhere. If Lorne had written, or helped write, the tune, then he would have been credited there as well. ;)

Felix reply Replies: 3 || 2017-01-04 11:45:47
According to IMDB Hans is Co-Scoring The Boss Baby together with Alan Silvestri, is it right ?

Edmund Meinerts2017-01-04 11:46:56
Zimmer AND Silvestri! Yeah right. XD Maybe they finally kissed and made up over Pirates?

Anonymous2017-01-04 17:05:12
LOL Edmund

Paul2017-01-04 21:53:04
Silvestri's revenge!

Anonymous reply Replies: 6 || 2016-09-24 04:31:00
any particular reason lorne balfe wasn't credited in the film itself? the end credits say music produced by lorne balfe, additional music by paul mounsey, kung fu panda themes by hans zimmer and john powell... but no credit for balfe doing the father/son tune?

Mike2016-09-24 05:17:52
Who knows...The booklet credits him. The cuesheet credits him. So the studio knows. :P

Somewhat related, it occurred to me looking at the cuesheet posted below that I guess Hans wrote the main new tune that's the main part of "Panda Village" - cause it also shows up in "Spirit Realm Part 1," which does *not* credit Lorne Balfe.

And heck, while I'm here: what two cues are "Po's Destiny" (credited to HZ/JP) and "Potential" (HZ/NW)? I've been able to figure out all the other ones.

Miguel 2016-09-24 10:17:40
He seems to never get proper credit ? Score sounds totally Balfe to me .

Mike2016-09-24 21:49:22
It *did* sound "Balfey" to me for a long time...but that changed knowing that Hans did at least three cues that I had previously assumed to be Balfe ("Hungry for Lunch," "Jaded" from 2:09-end, and "Passing the Torch"), and realizing (as I mentioned above) that Hans seems to have done most of the "Panda Village" track. So now I hear less Balfe in it. Parts of "The Battle of Legends" and "The Spirit Realm" definitely have his sound in them, but I definitely see this as a Hans score now, which I didn't before.

commonP2016-09-26 01:35:36
The real mystery is what exactly Paul did. the rest of the puzzle then sorts itself out! =p

Anonymous2016-09-27 04:17:14
So then why is John mentioned on every cue ? Surely he contributed something to these view also ?

Mike2016-09-27 04:32:34
Well...John co-wrote the main themes from KFP 1/2.... :P

Mike reply Replies: 13 || 2016-03-23 15:09:39
I know this isn't a welcome topic, but it deserves mentioning: Filmtracks gave KFP 3 four whole stars.

Ds2016-03-23 16:16:27
He gave four stars but felt obliged to justify himself, once again showing his bias:

"This is only marginally a Zimmer score. **** "

Leo2016-03-23 17:30:10
Well, is he lying? This is more of a Balfe work and a Mounsey work than a Zimmer one.

Ds2016-03-23 18:01:31
He's not lying, it's just the way he concludes this review before giving the rating.

The guy has hated/dismissed pretty much every Zimmer output of the last decade, now he's giving a good grade but immediately justifies it that "this is not really a Zimmer score", i.e. "this score is good but I still don't like Zimmer".

Edmund Meinerts2016-03-23 21:14:18
It does read a bit like that, doesn't it? I've long since given up on CC giving Zimmer a fair shake. He's actually kinder to practically all the other RC composers, I've found (he even had nice things to say about Terminator Genisys in his 2015 awards roundup, bizarrely enough). At this stage it really does feel personal; either that or he's playing it up for traffic, neither of which is a particularly admirable thing to do.

On the other hand, he does have a point. More people (not here, but YouTube commenters and the like) should be aware of who actually puts in the effort on scores like this, Winter's Tale, The Little Prince etc...Zimmer taking full credit on the front of the album does feel a little disingenuous.

rockhound2016-03-23 22:31:55
he also said, that the short arrangement of the "My Son Is Alive" theme in "The Panda Village" is powells theme, but i thought that theme from the second movie is also by lorne? i have the feeling he doesnt want to give full credit to the zimmer team. lorne wrote the best themes for this franchise and panda 3 has the best version of hans' main theme.

Edmund Meinerts2016-03-23 23:29:16
Yeah, he's wrong about that too. Definitely a Lorne theme (although it does owe a bit of a debt to How to Train Your Dragon).

I definitely disagree that Lorne wrote the best themes for the franchise, though. "Father and Son" is nice, sure, but for me the original franchise themes as introduced way back in KFP1 are still the heart and soul of the franchise. And I'll still take the erhu in "Oogway Ascends" over the piano and cello in "Oogway's Legacy".

Anonymous2016-09-02 03:41:45
Funny reading the above comments in light of the new credits...Knowing which cues Zimmer did solo now (which, before, sounded Lorne-ish to me), I no longer think this is "only marginally" a Zimmer score as the Filmtracks guy wrote. If Zimmer can write stuff like Hungry for Lunch, Jaded, and Passing the Torch, who's to say he didn't write most of Panda Village? That sounds like Lorne too but for all we know by now, it could be Hans for the most part.

iii2016-09-04 13:12:50
"If Zimmer can write stuff like Hungry for Lunch"

Erm... where did the assumption come from that he couldn't?

The idea that a professional composer who has been doing it for decades "can't" write cues on his own score is utterly ridiculous, and yet there are people surprised.

Mike2016-09-04 16:57:03
Well, speaking for myself, iii, I'll say this:

I guess we all knew that, yes, Zimmer could write bombastic/dynamic/flourishy cues if he really felt like it. Thing is, to our knowledge, he rarely, if ever, has done that in the last several years. With so many of his scores in the past decade, the cues that Hans has been credited alone for have been relatively simple in their style and orchestration. And for the most part, if a cue did have bombast/complex interplay/counterpoint/whatever, there would be one or more ghostwriters on the cue as well. So it almost gave the impression that if you heard a lot of complexity, a ghostwriter was a given for that cue.

Add to that the fact that Hans Zimmer himself has gone on record since Inception about how he no longer writes "big," "heroic," "pretty" music (all his words at different times), instead opting to see what he can do with stripped-down music based off 2 or 3 notes. So yes - Zimmer *can* and always *could* write stuff like he has in Kung Fu Panda 3, but credits as we've known them up to now, and his own comments, make it unexpected and kind of surprising when it happens.

iii2016-09-10 09:38:40
What did you think he was doing on Megamind, for example, which demands that kind of music?

As a general point, coming up with an initial tune and sound palette that speaks to the film is far harder than doing "fancy" trumpet rhythms, violin swishes and woodwind runs. Any halfway decent composer can do that in their sleep.

Many children's films are scored with frantic, bombastic orchestrations and are utterly anonymous and unmemorable. Hans almost always has a great tune, and he's more than capable of doing the flashy stuff if the film requires it.

Also I take exception to the filmtracks improper use of the term "ghost-writers". Ghost-writers don't get credited on the cue sheet, get invited to talk to the director, put cues on their websites and openly talk about what they wrote on scores in interviews. It's a complete insult to *real* ghost-writers out there.

Edmund Meinerts2016-09-10 12:53:27
Until the official album's tracklisting makes clear from the start who worked on which cue, I'm still perfectly fine with the term "ghostwriter", even if it says "additional music" in tiny print somewhere in the liner notes or if you can find a cuesheet buried on a website somewhere (no offense,!). Yes, Hans seems to do a bit more than some other composers (hi, Elfman, Tyler, Beltrami!) to get the names out there, but it's still not transparent enough for my liking.

As for the whole complex orchestrations thing...I don't think anyone is suggesting Zimmer CAN'T write like that, but the thing is, he rarely ever has, and especially lately seems to have grown uninterested in that kind of music (you say Hans can write a great tune...that's true, I wish he would do it more often!). That's what makes it surprising to see him credited alone on a cue like "Passing the Torch" or "Hungry for Lunch", when based on past knowledge and experience I would have been dead certain something like that would have been done mostly (if not entirely) by Lorne Balfe or whoever else. As for Megamind...well, I think a lot of us just assume(d) Balfe wrote those parts of that score too!

iii2016-09-10 18:07:38
Just because they don't tell you who programmed each note doesn't mean the term "ghostwriter" is appropriate. We'll have to agree to disagree on this. I maintain if you're getting royalties, free to speak about your role on a score, put cues up on your website and get screen credit, that's not "ghosting" by any sensible definition of the term.

People are very reductive about this for some reason. They think if they see Balfe's name attached to a cue, for example, it means Hans did nothing. It could well be the case that Hans wrote a rough version of the cue and Balfe tidied it up or did an orchestration. We don't know. We don't have a right to know the exact details either. If both composers are happy with the arrangement and the crediting reflects the balance of creative input then that's all that matters, frankly.

There are *real* ghost-writers out there toiling away, who would love to be able to do interviews where they, for example, talk candidly and enthusiastically about arranging the finale for the lone ranger, as Zanelli did. This isn't remotely comparable.

Incidentally, neither Hungry For Lunch nor Passing The Torch sound like Balfe. Neither does most of the rest of the score. The panda battle track maybe and the anonymous bouncing crap in the middle of the score.

Mike2016-09-10 18:37:38
Very well said, Edmund. Yes, I would have likely just checked off those portions of Megamind as Balfe and called it a day.

"Incidentally, neither Hungry For Lunch nor Passing The Torch sound like Balfe. Neither does most of the rest of the score. The panda battle track maybe and the anonymous bouncing crap in the middle of the score."

Well, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this, as well. :) It could be that Balfe has really sounded like Hans all this time, but for better or worse, we know the man's own style, and it sounds a lot like KFP 3.

I will say this: after the credits here, my initial assumption is going to be "Hans until proven not" from now on, even if it sounds like a particular additional composer. This score as proven to me that sound alone doesn't prove a credit true.

Steve reply Replies: 1 || 2016-09-01 22:38:39
so is this in chronological order? seems like another album made of combined tracks

Hybrid Soldier2016-09-01 23:06:28
It "mostly" is in chronological order...

Anonymous reply Replies: 3 || 2016-08-29 02:05:33
what did HZ do on Ribbon Dance? Isn't that the father / son theme?

Anon 22016-08-29 02:53:31
Only the very beginning, The rest is Hans (and Nathan, I guess).

For those like me who have an easier time conceptualizing *without* parenthetical credits on the tracks, it looks like the OST is this strictly speaking:

1. Oogway's Legacy - HZ
2. Hungry for Lunch - HZ
3. The Power of Chi - HZ, LB
4. The Arrival of Kai - HZ, PM
5. A New Father - HZ, PM
6. The Hall of Heroes - HZ, LB, PM
7. The Legend of Kai - HZ, PM
8. Mei Mei's Ribbon Dance - HZ, LB, NW
9. The Panda Village - HZ, LB
10. Jaded - HZ, LB, PM
11. How to Be a Panda - HZ, LB
12. Portrait of Mom - LB
13. Po Belongs - HZ, LB
14. Kai is Closer - HZ, LB, PM
15. Two Fathers - HZ, LB, PM
16. The Battle of Legends - HZ, LB
17. The Spirit Realm - HZ, LB, PM
18. The Dragon Warrior - HZ, LB
19. Passing the Torch - HZ
20. Father and Son - LB

Just easier to read that way IMO, even if credit is due to Powell and Imagine Dragons. :)

Hybrid Soldier2016-08-29 11:18:40
Ribbon Dance is 2 cues, the first part is Lorne. Then the fun actual Ribbon Dance is Hans & Nathan Wang.

commonP2016-08-30 00:51:10
Hybrid, was PM in charge of the Kai cues? That seems to be where he pops up.

Mike reply Replies: 5 || 2016-08-28 23:20:42
So, Zimmer did Hungry for Lunch AND Passing the Torch? Well, well!

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Anonymous2016-08-28 23:27:02
I have to say I would NEVER have guessed either of those to be Zimmer cues! Surprising indeed. There's such complicated Powellish orchestration! Zimmer just doesn't do that much anymore.

Mike2016-08-28 23:41:00
This is truly the last time I trust myself if I think Zimmer did next to nothing on a score. Granted, two extra cues isn't much, but I had completely written off those two as Balfe before now. Add in Batman v Superman where he did 80-90% of what we hear and I thoroughly mistrust my initial instincts with these scores anymore. :P

commonP2016-08-29 00:29:27
Those aren't the only cues he did. He worked on a lot.

Crane and Mantis Jaded
Hungry For Lunch
Dramatic Entrance
Dramatic Exit
Every Master Has Vanished
Father And Son
Hall Of Heroes
How To Be A Panda Pt 1
How To Be A Panda Pt 2
Kai And Oogway Battle
Kai Arrives
Kai Destroys The Palace
Kai Is Closer/You Just Did
Mei Mei's Ribbon Dance
Oogway Passes The Torch
Panda Homecoming
Panda Kai Battle
Panda Training
Ping and Li - Two Fathers
Portrait Of Mom
Po's Destiny
Spirit Warrior - Po's Sacrifice
The Dragon Warrior
The New Dad Part 1
The New Dad Part 2
The Power Of Chi
The Spirit Realm
The Spirit Realm Continued
The Training
Trek To The Village Part 1
Trek To The Village Part 2

I probably missed a few. Soldier probably knows which ones =p.

Hybrid Soldier2016-08-29 00:33:47
You can't really use that as Paul doesn't appear...

Mike2016-08-29 02:09:48
Hmm, interesting. Alright, Hybrid, do you know which of these cues are just HZ then (besides Hungry for Lunch, Passing the Torch, and Oogway's Legacy)?

commonP reply Replies: 8 || 2016-08-17 03:52:58
ASCAP cues don't mention Mounsey anywhere. That's bizarre.

Hybrid Soldier2016-08-17 08:26:12
Maybe he got screwed in the process ! -_-

Zimson2016-08-17 12:40:12
It's perfectly legal to sell your copyrights in the US.

commonP2016-08-17 20:10:30
Are you saying we can't trust the cue sheets Hybrid? =p

Hybrid Soldier2016-08-17 20:30:06
You always to be very careful with these, they will mostly tell what the composers want to tell... ;)

Most are "realistic" though, but you always have to cross-reference many sources... Can be like an investigation sometimes ! lol I love it, I just do this to try to know a bit more about how things are done, but I'm ultimately not in the composer's mind on D-Day when he's composing... :)

commonP2016-08-18 19:29:03
How did you go about figuring the credits for this one?

Hybrid Soldier2016-08-18 19:32:54
Not all additional composers make big secrets of what they did ! ;)

commonP2016-08-28 20:28:23
You changed the credits on a few cues. So Hungry For Lunch was Zimmer's Powell impression, not Balfe's? =p

Hybrid Soldier2016-08-28 20:40:25
Yeah I reajusted a few... ;)

Anonymous reply Replies: 0 || 2016-07-07 23:36:23
Hybrid, do you have any idea about this: is the main tune in "Panda Village" a Hans or Lorne tune? It sounds Lorneish to me...

Diyadam reply Replies: 0 || 2016-06-25 23:03:11
What is the music style used to make "The arrival of Kai" soundtrack

user101 reply Replies: 1 || 2016-06-01 23:46:05
Which instruments were used in the Kai Montage (the part that kind of sounds like "I'm so sorry")

user1012016-06-01 23:47:59
Also, who composed the Kai Montage

user101 reply Replies: 1 || 2016-05-27 02:51:32
Which Instruments were used in the Kai Montage?

mont2016-05-27 12:02:52
An awful lot, you might need to be more specific.

JR reply Replies: 4 || 2016-01-21 22:04:48 ndex.html
You can listen samples on this website

rockhound2016-01-21 23:23:19
the samples sound very nice. im really looking forward to the album.

rockhound2016-01-22 00:03:40
tracks like Portrait Of Mom or Father And Son are just wonderful. such a beautiful theme and both tracks have a very nice orchestration. if this theme is by hans im impressed, because i havent heard such a beautiful theme by him in a very long time.

Alan2016-05-02 22:54:01
I love soundtrack Father & Son. Its beautiful & peaceful. I love it. Thanks Hans

I also like the soundtrack of Interstellar Film. Good Job

Edmund Meinerts2016-05-02 23:12:02
Thank Lorne, not Hans!

curious to get some insight reply Replies: 3 || 2016-02-29 02:51:47
Hybrid can you explain how you arrived at these credits a bit? Is it just guesses? Are you crediting Lorne where "Father and Son" is used? How is Mounsey in nearly every cue?

Just curious to get some insight into how this score came together.

Edmund Meinerts2016-02-29 12:19:03
If they were just guesses he wouldn't have added them to the tracklist. My guess is they're either from ASCAP or some cue sheet.

Anonymous2016-03-01 18:22:35
There is nothing on ascap but it's pretty obvious anyway so why ask the question.

I've never seen why all the caring about knowing who wrote each little bit, it's stupid. The only question Hybrid hasn't answered is why Balfe isn't getting proper credit for a score he clearly wrote the majority of (unless Hans has magically learned how to write in that faux-JP style).

It's weird because normally hz scores are good for crediting, unlike some other big composers.

weset22016-04-19 19:17:08
John is way better. Can't wait for How to train your dragon 3 score!

Bondo reply Replies: 0 || 2016-04-02 20:04:43
Is this in chronological order?

Bri reply Replies: 0 || 2016-03-30 05:28:28
So much music is missing from this soundtrack that was in the actual film! Although all of it is beautiful! :)

Leo reply Replies: 1 || 2016-03-08 15:40:30
It's a good score, but I feel that there is lots of "mickey-mousing in this. So yeah, Kung Fu Panda 2 is still superior for me. o:

fair2016-03-12 01:48:32
I agree.

The fake Powell stuff is a bit meh in this one. They tried, but there's only one true Powell (sorry for his loss btw that's horrible). A new Father sounds like a weak version of tracks from 1 and 2 cut together.

I like the bits where Hans really lets HIS style shine.

Dimitris Krommidas reply Replies: 0 || 2016-03-08 13:26:22 USN_ynEx1aIDCdXvPj1-A

Edmund Meinerts reply Replies: 6 || 2016-03-06 22:50:34
I know Hybrid said the "My Son is Alive" theme wasn't kept, and yeah, it doesn't get any big reprises...but I spotted a tiny hint of it, in "The Panda Village" at 2:58. Nice to see Lorne managed to slip it in there somewhere!

Hybrid Soldier2016-03-06 22:59:44
Absolutely ! I had noticed that... :)

Mike2016-03-07 02:54:46
Interesting! I didn't notice that, because of how well it meshed with the surrounding material, but you're right, there it is. I really like this score, by the way. I think Hans and Lorne really knocked it out of the park.

mpolonest123 2016-03-07 06:17:57
This might be blasphemy but..... I like this score better than KFP2!

I think as an overall package it's more cohesive. And there are some great unreleased variations on Kai's theme

Mike2016-03-07 16:08:42
I agree. KFP 2 was great, but it suffered a few too many times from "let's temp KFP 1 music here and be done with it." In #3, the reuse of themes is much more intelligently integrated.

Edmund Meinerts2016-03-07 17:16:24
I think this one is the weakest of the lot, although it's still pretty solid. Predictably enough, that probably has a lot to do with the lack of Powell's voice, although Balfe and Mounsey do a pretty good impersonation (some of Mounsey's cues even have that Powell percussion sound down almost perfectly, which is not easy to do). Shen and Tai Lung's themes > Kai's theme for me as well, and "The Bridge" or any of the fantastic action cues in the second half of KFP2 ("Zen Ball Master", holy CRAP) are better and more sustained than the equivalents here.

In the end I'd go with:

KFP1 ****
KFP2 **** 1/2
KFP3 *** 1/2 (close to ****)

Mike2016-03-07 17:43:54
I can agree with you about Kai's theme...Whether or not the tune came from Imagine Dragons, it's just not all that engaging. Tai Lung's theme had an aura of mystery, brute strength, and intimidation, while Shen's theme, with it's swelling / rising character, perfectly fit his egotistical nature. I haven't watched the film yet, but Kai's theme doesn't register a specific emotion to me.

I feel like KFP 1 has the best sense of equality between the Powell and Zimmer contributions, KFP 2 has the most engaging character overall (with some really dramatic moments, too - always a plus), and KFP 3 has the best integration of old and new into something fresh (and the best representation of the Oogway Ascends theme, in Oogway's Legacy).

If I had to rate them, I'd say:

KFP 1: *** 1/2 (much better in film than on album, IMO)
KFP 2: **** 1/2 (it works great in film and is such an enjoyable album experience)
KFP 3: **** 1/2 (as an album - again, haven't seen the film yet).

Anonymous reply Replies: 3 || 2016-02-02 15:32:27
just curious for anyone who's seen the movie, how much unreleased score is there?

movie2016-02-03 01:08:18
Very little. Maybe 5 minutes.

The mix of some of the cues is noticeably different though. There was no point wheeling in Lang Lang because none of his piano stuff is even in the film, and the electronics in "Jaded" are toned down.

mpolonest1232016-02-17 23:03:20
Actually some of Lang Lang's material is used, just sparingly. "Oogway's Legacy" is in the end credits, and "Portrait of Mom" has his sound. I do agree though that he was extremely underused in the overall score.

As for the unreleased stuff; the entire opening scene is missing and there are smaller arrangements of Kai's sprinkled throughout. There is a pretty cool arrangement of the theme which comes after "How to Be a Panda" and before "Po Belongs".

mpolonest1232016-02-17 23:06:50
And Hybrid, why did Hans use the Imagine Dragons song as a basis for Kai? It's not used in the film at all.

I'm also loving that little motif used at 1:20 in "Spirit Realm", I'm guessing it's a theme for Chi.

Swordroll reply Replies: 0 || 2016-02-11 03:00:13
I feel like some of the music from Kai's fight scenes, especially with Oogway, are missing.

Hybrid Soldier reply Replies: 4 || 2016-01-24 11:35:28
So, for the little story to understand it better. The "My Son Is Alive" theme at the end of KFP 2 was a theme for the "Panda Village Discovery", not for Po's dad, that's why it doesn't return here, and Lorne instead wrote that new "Father & Son" theme.

As for Imagine Dragons, it's not just random temptrack kept here, it was Hans' choice.

Mike2016-01-24 19:42:50
Interesting... BTW, everybody, I thought you might find this interesting as far as credits go.... In the video going behind the scenes with the music, when Lang Lang is playing the "Portrait of Mom" cue in Hans' studio, you can clearly see this if you look closely at the sheet music:

Composed by:
Orchestrated by:
Oscar Senen

On the other hand, when the soloist is playing the cues "Crane and Mantis Jaded" and "Kai Destroys the Palace," it says:

Composed by:
Orchestrated by:
Oscar Senen

Now obviously, I doubt the two cues above are solo Zimmer. But that being said, the cue sheets recognize that Balfe did the Father / Son theme, as does the booklet. Why the front cover doesn't include Lorne's name is anyone's guess, but he's definitely credited in the studio itself!

Hybrid Soldier2016-01-24 19:48:16
And Senen is... Lorne's orchestrator ! Check on this very site... :P

Mike2016-01-24 20:10:47
If Hans ever decides he wants nothing more to do with this series... I hope he hands it over to Lorne completely. Lorne's work so far shows he's more than capable of doing justice to this series and its sound.

Anonymous2016-02-02 15:35:20
also re: lorne balfe, the directors say in the booklet, "he [hans] and lorne balfe created a wonderful score" etc...

Hybrid Soldier reply Replies: 11 || 2016-01-13 23:16:56
Just listened to it, unfortunately that KFP 2 "My Son Is Alive" theme wasn't kept... Bummer... lol

Ds2016-01-13 23:24:35
Lucky basterd!!

Hybrid Soldier2016-01-14 00:16:04
I added a little suite of the main new theme...

...2016-01-14 00:28:27
This sounds amazing:) Can't wait to hear the whole album!

mpolonest1232016-01-14 00:47:32

Outside of the Kai theme were there any other new motifs or was it mainly old material?

NM2016-01-14 01:17:51
How would you rate it next to the previous two?

FORZA2016-01-14 02:07:21
Hmm... Doesn't sound quite like it did in the last two. Not sure what it is. I'm not saying it's bad... Just not convinced yet. Still can't wait to get my hands on the full thing!

0-^-02016-01-14 07:35:03
No one will mistake this one for being Powell's, like most did for number 2, that's for sure.

Mephariel2016-01-14 08:07:36
The last half of the Kai Montage track is awesome.

rockhound2016-01-14 08:17:29
i think it sounds amazing. im looking forward to the whole album. although the my son is alive theme would have been really nice, but ok....

Hybrid Soldier2016-01-14 08:49:34
I spotted another new theme, apart from that it's mostly arrangements of the previous themes.

Rating it, no idea, the 3 scores are very different (my favorite remains the second).

Anonymous2016-02-01 04:57:22
I agree with FORZA. I've seen FORZA's youtube channel.

J.A.J. reply Replies: 3 || 2016-01-29 21:47:12
How should I pronounce "Lorne Balfe?" Does "Lorne" sound like "forlorn" and "Balfe" sound like "ralph?" Or do the e's in his name make a sound or something?

Hybrid Soldier2016-01-29 21:53:44
You got it right ! ;)

Zimson2016-01-29 22:01:27
Just type it into google translate and click the voice output. That's how i did it. :P

Anonymous2016-01-30 00:47:46
Lorne is pronounced like "forlorn". Like Lorne Michaels, creator of SNL

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Kung Fu Panda 3 soundtrack - Hans Zimmer - Lorne Balfe 2016