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I hear a lot of music throughout the postcad, I imagine from the movie, piano and very orchestral, it promisesseeming score snippets at 6:29, 29:13 and the first episode is nothing about the score :/ mehhThis is a beautiful score by the way. I have feeling this will get lost with NTTD, Dune, and WW84 coming out, but people should give this a listen. The new overture is a nice remix of the main PEII theme. And I "Surfing Dolphins" is yet again a winner.Dave didn't work on it, but a few Blue Planet stuff were used so he gets some sort of credit in the cuesheet for "A Celebration".
Who did Zimmer do this with? Shea and Fleming?May Mr. Zimmer and his team be interested on “extracting” music from the human body for medical purposes?<br>You can reach me at:<br>jcp77452 at<br>ThanksNot only is the album fun as a concept album, it's a surprisingly good score to picture. The themes are really clear for each of the characters and the music really fits the action. Even though the action is kind of corny. Real underrated gem. <br><br>I finally watched the film and even though it's a sort of 5 or 6 out of 10 average/okay movie, it reminded me just how much personality gets injected when Hans Zimmer does the score. He really has a strong voice.Yeah this is a pretty fair assessment.<br><br>While I’ve found myself liking it less and less now that we’re hearing things like ME or Alita from Tom there are still some excellent tracks throughout. <br>(The Dark Tower, Collateral Damage, Guardian, It Will Fall, Roland of Eld)<br><br>My biggest gripe is with the purely sound design cues. They honestly go nowhere and end up padding the album out. What this score needed was a solid villain motif and some more orchestral underscore. It’s like one-half of the score is the more traditional side of Holkenborg whereas the rest falls into his early habit of just making noise.I give it a listen after three years, and i still like it.<br><br>If isn't as good as Mortal Engines or Alita, have a interesting aspects to enjoy: his main theme for Roland, some of the action cues are strong, even the dramatic ones (The Creed or Collateral Damage), some of the sound design are interesting.<br><br>Maybe the weakest aspect of the album, is the middle, some tracks are not that interesting to listen.
woooooow <3From the "No Time to Die" podcast description...<br><br>"You can also be the first to hear exclusive score from Hans Zimmer and brand new recordings from the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra from Bond 25 brought to you from Decca Records."<br><br>First of six episodes is released on Wednesday 30th September!!that would be great@GR7 that sounds really cool care to share?Hi! What's the story with track "Into Space"? They really copy track "Planet Descent" and name it that "Into Space"?
I agree guys. Yhis album and parts of the experiments are vey enjoyable. I tend to listen to OST prriodically, and each year there is one or severall scores that replace what I listen the most, and so on... but Dark phoenix is one I can listen every time. <br>I made personal suites assembling music from the OST and mixing it with expremients, and it results in a 50 min suites album, I really like it.Same for me. I'm so happy ! :DA Celebration? It's actually on youtube now.Got it. I assumed as much for the first 3. Thanks.hahahaha ... crack, sorry. Well so far there is no news of anything. Only the video that one track and one with Dave, but it's a preview.<br>I'm not sure how to get news on this, I really would like to get it hahaha.

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Hans ZimmerGeoff ZanelliRupert Gregson-WilliamsLorne Balfe
ComposerAdditional MusicAdditional MusicAdditional Music
The Lone Ranger
Label: Walt Disney Records / Intrada
Length: 49'36 rating:        Not yet rated
Fans rating:     rate at 1 out of 5 rate at 2 out of 5 rate at 3 out of 5 rate at 4 out of 5 rate at 5 out of 5   2/5 (20550 votes)
  1. Never Take Off The Mask (1:08)
  2. Absurdity (4:58)
  3. Silver (4:00)
  4. Ride (4:17)
  5. You've Looked Better (3:09)
  6. Red's Theater Of The Absurd - Pokey LaFarge & The South City Three (3:02)
  7. The Railroad Waits For No One (3:09)
  8. You're Just A Man In A Mask (4:14)
  9. For God And For Country (4:53)
  10. Finale (9:51)
  11. Home (6:55)
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matthew reply Replies: 1 || 2013-10-11 20:06:35
so it's official, everybody knows now!
the man (Mr. one-of-the-biggest-director-biggest-fan-of-sergio-biggest-fa n-of-western) is a serious dedicated fan of The Lone Ranger.

Meta2013-10-12 00:48:40
That's nice - he's indirectly helping Disney with a little promo on his end...or at least trying to.

Man with no name reply Replies: 0 || 2013-09-14 23:52:03
will be complete score?

Mike reply Replies: 3 || 2013-09-13 21:55:05
Does Zimmer really think Rossini is "a hack"? I'm curious. It'd be interesting to know.

MacArthur2013-09-13 23:39:37
No I think that you have it wrong. people think Zimmer is a hack not Zimmer thinking Rossini is a hack

Mike2013-09-14 18:14:05
Probably true, but I'm just wondering because Gore Verbinski, this movie's director, said that Zimmer thinks Rossini is "a hack" and so he didn't want to use the William Tell Overture.

MacArthur2013-09-14 18:52:04
Maybe he was Joking he seems like he jokes a lot and in any case he did use it.

matthew reply Replies: 0 || 2013-09-12 12:44:31
this is a very easy case I think. Hans was bored sitting next to disney bosses watching Johnny Depp playing the silly / dump pirate. after four pirates suddenly he realized he's watching Johnny Depp playing the silly / dump indian again with disney bosses. and after rango he was not so intrested in western. (also Depp playing the silly / dump chameleon)

about not going to lone ranger event: don't forget that Hans smiled really proudly at the opening of potc 4.

but this yust me, maybe I'm wrong.

Edmund Meinerts reply Replies: 6 || 2013-09-10 23:28:09
I'm waiting for Hybrid to update the who-did-whats on this score and to see Zanelli's name next to all of the other tracks as well as the "Finale"... ;)

MacArthur2013-09-11 01:53:59
I don't think that will happen cause Zimmer did it.

Mike2013-09-11 03:21:07
lol, same, Edmund. I really have no idea who did what here, though, besides Hybrid repeatedly saying Zanelli was the no. 2 composer on it. I suspect Absurdity and Silver will be credited solely to Zimmer, though, because they sound like suites.

Mike2013-09-11 03:23:55
And sadly, the Lone Ranger image on Zanelli's website is just that: an image. No link to click on, and thus no music. This is purely conspiracy, but I wonder if maybe it's not clickable because Zanelli doesn't want us to know just how much he did?

And please don't jump on that comment, anyone. I really like this score, whoever wrote it, and that comment has nothing to do with its quality.

Hybrid Soldier2013-09-11 12:29:04
It's just Geoff put it long before the release, so he indeed couldn't share music, but no doubt he'll add cues in the future... :)

And no, there's a cuesheet available, which isn't detailed... :)

Anonymous2013-09-11 12:45:38
Why is he even bothered to take these assignments if he doesn't care? If it is a favor for Verbinski then this kind of attitude doesn't quite complement his motives. Unless, of course, Verbibski too didn't enjoy this ride either.

Hybrid Soldier2013-09-11 12:52:56
Well the important is the result. Did this score deliver ? Apparently everyone says yes, so what's the problem ?

e reply Replies: 30 || 2013-08-13 19:43:34
Anywhere you could find the End Credits music?

MacArthur2013-08-13 20:53:03
iTunes Its Titled Home

Edmund Meinerts2013-08-13 22:04:26
That's obviously not what "e" here is looking for. I'm guessing it's the first half of the end credits, which is like an extension of the best parts of the Finale with all of the themes presented over the William Tell rhythm. It's an awesome cue and I can't believe they couldn't find room for it on the album! :/

Hybrid Soldier2013-08-13 22:09:39
It's understandable HZ dropped it, since the material is basically a mix between William Tell and the Silver suite.

And even if the arrangement is cool, I don't think HZ care...

And if it was him only, he wouldn't have released a soundtrack at all...

Actually he didn't care at all about that score... Give him MOS & Rush ANYTIME !

MacArthur2013-08-13 22:41:07
Hybrid Do you know Hans

Hybrid Soldier2013-08-13 22:49:02
You haven't been on that site for a very long time apparently, but already flooding like crazy ! (evil)

To be more serious, I wouldn't consider I "know" him, let's just say I "exchange" with him for 3/4 years now... ;)

Ds2013-08-13 23:02:16
Hybrid, what you're saying is pretty harsch. If Hans didn't care, why the hell did he take the full credit? He could have co-credited Geoff Zanelli... or given him the whole thing. Geoff needs visibility and recognition because he's one of the most talented RCP composers these days.

Hybrid Soldier2013-08-13 23:15:39
I agree with you but... Doesn't EVERYONE know Geoff did the key cue to that score, the most praised one ? ;)

MacArthur2013-08-13 23:26:46
Wait your saying Zanelli did the score

Hybrid Soldier2013-08-13 23:34:25
Certainly not, though he's by far the n°2 guy here... :)

Ds2013-08-14 01:17:32
Yeah Hybrid, we all know that. But people with a bit less interest in film music have no idea who Geoff is, but they all know HZ... Seriously, can't Hans tell Versbinski & Bruckheimer "sorry guys, i have no time/no interest in doing this score, but you know Geoff from Rango & Pirates, he's highly competent and will be glad to work on your movie". There would've been NO difference, just maybe a bit less Pirates/Sherlock rip-off :p

MacArthur2013-08-14 01:24:15
I personally thought that this score was very good and in an interview with Zimmer he said he was glad to do this score

Mike2013-08-14 02:12:36
I really enjoy this film score, but I can tell Zimmer doesn't really care about it. Almost no interviews on it, and the one interview he did do was awkward and barely dealt with the score.

Mike2013-08-14 02:14:45
And MacArthur, my friend, NEVER trust official interviews. Hans also gave high praise to Rob Marshall, POTC4's director, but Hans hated working on that movie.

MacArthur2013-08-14 02:21:20
Yeah I didn't care to much for that score. some of it was ok but overall didn't care for it

MacArthur2013-08-14 02:22:11
I wonder if Zimmer is going to score POTC5

Mike2013-08-14 02:24:15
According to our friend Hybrid here, Zimmer doesn't want to. I really feel like Geoff Zanelli, the number 2 guy on all the other Pirates films, will do it.

Edmund Meinerts2013-08-14 08:15:29
Funny that a score that Hans apparently considered beneath him and didn't pay much attention to is, IMO, easily the best thing he's done in the last four years. Whereas Man of Steel...yeah.

Mike2013-08-14 15:43:10
I quite liked Man of Steel as a whole (even though its use in the movie was disappointing), but I agree with Edmund: TLR is one of Zimmer's best in a while.

NM2013-08-14 16:29:12
Hybrid, could you take a stab at the credits for this one?

Hybrid Soldier2013-08-14 16:44:17
Nothing available I'm afraid. For now... If there is you'll be the first ones to know !

MacArthur2013-08-14 19:05:23
what's IMO

MacArthur2013-08-14 19:07:57
and i think that Zimmer would do POTC5 because in the last one, the score was not that great now i think he will do it again just to please audiences and you never know maybe this one will be the best one of all the POTC scores. I guess we won't know till it comes out.

Magnus Rex2013-09-10 09:13:23
Hans "didn't care at all for the score?" That surely cannot be good publicity, what do you mean exactly? He didn't have a good experience, he wasn't happy with his work?

trent easton navarro2013-09-10 13:34:58
typical, Zimmer's best score in ages and he doesn't care for it...

Hybrid Soldier2013-09-10 13:47:32
Did you see HZ do PR for Lone Ranger ? No... Barely a couple interviews, no premieres...

While he's travelling the world for Rush & 12 Years A Slave and did so for MOS.

Says it all... :)

Mike2013-09-10 13:50:14
"Says it all" indeed. And the one Lone Ranger interview there was, Hans totally fudged his way through it.

Meta2013-09-10 18:34:16
Well, based on what Ive heard much of it doesnt really sound like his music anyway, more like Geoff Zanelli's music....

I can only think that the Absurdity track is his...

He probably did the same for this movie that he did for the original Pirates, only he put his name on this release...

Anonymous2013-09-10 21:24:04
I'd be sad if I was a director and Hans didn't care for the score to my film.

Brent2013-09-10 21:46:12
Yeah, it would be interesting to see how his relationship with Gore is now. I'm thinking it's more of a Bruckheimer issue than it is an issue with Gore. Hm, we'll see.

Hybrid Soldier2013-09-10 23:11:05
HZ did it for GV.

yepa reply Replies: 3 || 2013-09-04 11:08:58
complete sessions? :) anytime?

Mike2013-09-04 17:24:07
The beginning, perhaps, but I'm thinking more about the mid-and-end parts. :)

Mike2013-09-04 17:24:50
Oh whoops, that was supposed to go below. lol. Anyways, about the sessions, this score just came out. Maybe Hybrid could post the cue sheet like he did for Man of Steel, though.

yepa2013-09-04 18:19:37
:D thanks :)

Mike reply Replies: 3 || 2013-09-03 17:19:33
Does "Home" remind anyone else of John Williams? It reminds me in a way of War Horse. It's a departure from Zimmer's usual style and, in my opinion, one of his best pieces of music in a while.

Mike2013-09-03 17:30:38
And for the life of me, I can't figure out why Zimmer didn't necessarily like this score...It's hugely enjoyable, in my opinion, and in a way seems more heartfelt than Man of Steel was. I like Man of Steel also, but it's a typical big, epic Zimmer score. The Lone Ranger seems more modest.

George2013-09-04 08:38:20
Actually Home sounds like a retooled version of the Time theme from Inception...

MacArthur2013-09-04 17:23:28
Yes I agree with you Mike and Also George.

blub reply Replies: 0 || 2013-09-03 19:05:59
so many unreleased tracks in the movie :(

Anonymous reply Replies: 1 || 2013-09-03 17:53:34
I love the last two minutes of For God and for Country

MacArthur2013-09-03 18:01:41
Funny I love the first 2 minutes.

MacArthur reply Replies: 4 || 2013-09-01 18:28:33
What did Zanelli do on this score.

MacArthur2013-09-01 18:29:20
Or at least what did he help with

Mike2013-09-01 19:43:44
We all know he did "Finale", and according to the Filmtracks review he arranged some other stuff. You'd have to check there for specifics, however. :)

MacArthur2013-09-02 06:06:30
I checked some sources and found that Zimmer and Zanelli Did Finale

Zimson2013-09-02 11:51:00
There's an interview where Zimmer talks about the Willhelm Tell Ouverture which was used for this track, so I suppose he had something to do with it.

matthew reply Replies: 0 || 2013-08-14 13:40:23
I think Hans simply didn't really like this movie. it's really a betrayal to this genre. basically on paper this is a western and within that it's a revenge movie. what a joke... for some reason disney thinks the bad guys can't be directly and personally killed by the poor good guys in a revenge story. look at the final train chase. jesus fuck...
what is this? the Miranda act in a western?? so the question is why Hans agreed to do this after he saw the movie? and why Verbinski agreed to this? I really believe that he doesn't like it too. and the funny thing is that disney thinks,this way, younger audiences can learn about western. so what they do is important and cool and fun.
and during this, slowly and surely star wars is coming...

MacArthur reply Replies: 8 || 2013-07-31 00:34:31
Loved the score not the movie the score was fantastic and moving. The movie not so much. It was Anti-American and lacked Character development. But like I said, the score was amazing Zimmer did a fantastic job.

Guitwo2013-08-10 20:12:57
because a movie is a anti american it's a bad movie? mmmh that argument is really weird.

Mike2013-08-11 00:21:45
Well The Lone Ranger does strike me as an American thing. Not sure, since I'm not familiar with it, but it seems to be that way; and if that is indeed true, then wouldn't it be odd for an American thing to be anti-American?

MacArthur 2013-08-11 00:34:17
The Movie was basically about Tonto the Lone Ranger was a buffoon and it was anti capitalist in which the Greedy white people stole the indians land which if you read the right history books is not true. not the Revisionist history books but such is hollywood.

MacArthur 2013-08-11 00:48:54
In That sense it was anti American Because it slammed white people in general and it slammed industry which was one of the things that made this country great. Now that is not to say that there where not greedy white people in those days. but for the most part the government and settlers in those times usually paid for their land. it also made the Presbyterians look like idiots who couldn't think their way out of a paper bag. and i know for a fact that the christians who came to settle the west were very smart and willing to work with the Indians. and were very helpful to them. but all in all the score that Zimmer made was a very good score i enjoy it a lot.

Ds2013-08-11 11:35:12
As an European, I don't think the movie is "anti-american". The greedy railway boss, the gangsters attacking people to make them believe Indians violated the treaty, the interaction with the US army, the silver mine... are all reminiscent themes not only in Western movies, but also in Western cartoons like Lucky Luke. This movie's never pretended to be historical, it's more like a big mash-up of Western-y elements.

Hybrid Soldier2013-08-11 11:44:25
I totally agree DS... Maybe cause I'm European too... But I hardly see this movie as "anti-american"... Quite the opposite. You know, for every single country on this planet, History is basically ugly. EVERY SINGLE ONE. No fairy tales, just tons of bad decisions leading to other bad decisions leading to even worse.

So basically, depicting some parts of the history on a movie will always be harsh on the people depicted... No need to try to find "anti" this or "pro" that or politics/messages everywhere... Just enjoy the ride.

MacArthur 2013-08-11 18:10:53
I Know that they where just trying to make a fun movie but i wish that they would at least stick to the facts a little more because i really didn't enjoy the fact that the christians where buffoons thats just what got me. I did enjoy Johnny Depp's performance i just thought that the casting for Armie Hammer could have been different. I think Chris Evans would have been better. Oh and did i mention that the score was the thing that rocked the film.

MacArthur 2013-08-11 18:11:48
Oh Hybrid do you know Hans Zimmer?

Mike reply Replies: 2 || 2013-08-03 00:09:15
Who wrote Track 6? I get that it's a source cue, but it's instrumental, so it could have been anyone, really.

Ds2013-08-03 00:17:26
I read it was written by Jack White before he left.

Mike2013-08-10 19:11:07
Now this, m'friend, is the real question: did Jack White actually leave, or did Jerry-Zimmer-must-be-on-everything-Bruckheimer kick him out? ;)

Joe reply Replies: 11 || 2013-07-16 06:43:55
WOW. What a horrible movie. Barely any music in there, honestly if a complete score leaks maybe 10 minutes of good unreleased stuff, at best. Shame on the producers for not using more, Silver and Absurdity are quality tracks, should have been used. (I didn't even stay for the credits, that's how bad the film was)

Joe2013-07-16 06:44:42
also the film was a disorganized mess and the acting was goofy and incongruous

Meta2013-07-16 07:34:31
The End Credits Consist of a 3:00 remix of the principal themes for the film, followed by the track "Home".

Aside from this, what's missing are just extended versions of themes already presented on the album (Tonto's theme with the piano, his backstory, etc). And you're right - it's about 10 minutes or so of extra stuff...

I'm surprised the movie was so disjointed, but then I realized that werewolves were initially intended, but scrapped, so I rolled my eyes at the final product...

In all seriousness I think they should have kept in the werewolves...I know that's not in line with the Lone Ranger, perse, and all that supernatural stuff is more in tune with the Pirates franchise,

But considering most viewpoints of this film were describing this as a "Western version of Pirates of the Caribbean" anyway? Plus the fact that they DID include some supernatural elements in there, despite axing the werewolves?

They should have just kept the damn werewolves in there...At this point it sure as Hell wouldn't have hurt the production...And at the very LEAST it would have made Cannibal Butch, the silver fetish, and that goddamn silver bullet issue make so much more sense...

Just my two cents...

Ds2013-07-16 09:08:48
Joe: Absurdity and Silver are theme suites, that's why they aren't in full length in the movie. But these themes are present in many other tracks...

theeaglesfan0052013-07-16 19:26:09
um... there definitely is WAY more than 49:36 of score in this film -.-

Meta2013-07-17 06:37:05
There may be way scene I can point out as an example is the Tonto gets arrested scene...

but most all of what's left are just variations of the themes already presented on the album...and most those other variatons are not really varied, so I never really caught any significance to them...

Joe2013-07-18 02:49:44
theeaglesfan005, I said maybe 10 minutes of GOOD stuff, most of the rest was ambient or uninteresting

Meta2013-07-18 06:46:28
Best 10 minutes of missing score:

End Credits 1
Tonto's back story
Old Tonto scenes

Ds2013-08-03 00:26:43
Joe: you said the movie was an "disorganized mess". I just saw it, it's absolutely not "disorganized". It's just unconventionnal, the story's told in a very original way. If you paid enough attention, you'd have realized that the storytelling is actually brilliant. I recognize it might lose younger audiences, but i had a great time seeing, for once, a blockbuster doing things differently.

Plus, photography and score were gorgeous.

Joe2013-08-03 18:56:28
But I didn't want different for this type of film. I expected unconventional in terms of acting and plot, not production and editing. Too many random things happened. Hollywood is getting worse, and the films with great actors are paying the price :(

Ds2013-08-03 21:06:24
I found the story very unconventionnal, at least in comparison with the average hollywood sci-fi blockbuster we get these days...

trent easton navarro2013-08-10 14:05:32
@Joe - Hollywood is indeed getting worse. But The Lone Ranger isn't one of the reasons. It's actually one of the more innovating films of this year. While I agree that the film is a bit uneven. The brutal violence doesn't always match with the goofy and absurd tone of the film. But visually the film is stunning. The action scenes are great and Zimmer's music is excellent, his best in years. Most importantly, this film is FUN! Which can't be said from the crapfest that is Man of Steel (and The Dark Knight Rises for that matter).

Sabou reply Replies: 0 || 2013-08-10 10:55:22
Can I buy the notes on some place?
Sorry, my English is very bad :-(

badibu reply Replies: 0 || 2013-08-10 09:35:54
Absurdity, Silver and The Railroad Waits For No One is so amazing!!! What a masterpice! Hans did it again :)

Anonymous reply Replies: 1 || 2013-07-31 00:42:52
I don't mean to offend anyone who knows more about this stuff than I do but is the number of interviews Zimmer gives on a project proportionate to how much of the music he (and not an additional guy) did? Man of Steel and TDKR had lots of interviews, but the Lone Ranger only had one Zimmer interview and he didnn't even really go into the scoring process. He talked very, very briefly about how the William Tell Overture is like an old friend and sometimes things happen to old friends (i.e., they altered it for the film), and then he also said he always wanted to score a western, and how Gore Verbinski takes even comedy films seriously. But he gave no insight into the score with the Lone Ranger, and a lot of the tracks (besides maybe Silver, Absurdity, and Home) don't sound like Zimmer exactly. They sound like his friends. I know Zimmer supervises the whole score and stuff, but a lot of the music here sounds more like additional composers sounding like Zimmer than Zimmer himself. This is also a very entertaining score. But how much of Zimmer is it? With MoS or Batman you can tell most of the music is Zimmer because he has all those long suites--not so apparent here.

MacArthur2013-07-31 01:08:04
Anonymous Zimmer did score the film. but in an article I read on Zimmer said he scored the Lone Ranger differently than MoS. and that he intended it that way.

Anonymous reply Replies: 0 || 2013-07-29 18:01:34
Hybrid, do you happen to know who worked on each track here? I get that Finale is Goeff Zanelli, but this is one of those scores where it just SOUNDS like a group effort, so I'd appreciate knowing who did what, if you know. Unfortunately, Geoff Zanelli has no Lone Ranger music on his site. Just the poster.

Eyal reply Replies: 0 || 2013-07-18 21:12:45
The best soundtracks ever GO on HANZ ZIMMER

Mike reply Replies: 2 || 2013-07-17 16:04:56
Does anyone know if the CD release will have a different tracklist? I'm determining whether to buy the score now or wait for the CD.

Meta2013-07-17 18:42:30
I dont see why it would have a different tracklist, unless it was a special edition or something...

This being a Disney release, I doubt it will be any different. Especially since the movie bombed at the box office.

Dimitris Krommidas2013-07-17 20:30:21
The tracklist is the same on the CD.

Ds reply Replies: 4 || 2013-07-15 11:33:25
Hybrid, do you know if Zanelli's responsible for the entire Finale track, or just for the bits of William Tell featured in that track? In other words, i adore the integration of several themes in that track, and wish to know if this was done by HZ or GZ. Or both.

Hybrid Soldier2013-07-15 12:54:33
The Finale track is composed of 2 different cues, both GZ. Incorporating HZ's theme as well.

Bioscope2013-07-15 16:52:55
I love the way Tonto's theme is fully developed as a bookend to the finale, before the william Tell closes it. Goosebumps!!

Mike2013-07-15 18:58:43
What is Hans' theme exactly (i.e., which tracks can it be found in)?

Philipp2013-07-17 12:55:50
that would be very interesting!

i think the finale track sounds very HZ-like
for example ''Finale'' min. 4:14 and min. 5:18 very epic and powerful

aldan reply Replies: 29 || 2013-07-06 04:47:58
so, just realized, this is not entirely original Zimmer,
aside from the William Tell overture, the other track that i love, "Silver" is losely based on "After The Battle of Aughrim", with slower tempo.

not so much to appreciate here

Anon2013-07-06 05:06:48
Just listened to it... So basically the best theme (and arguably, most
Important theme) in the whole score is an exact transciption of this traditional folk tune.

I know this isn't uncommon for film scores and music in general, but this is very disappointing :( (William Tell I understand as that was used as the original Lone Ranger theme)

aldan2013-07-06 05:32:08
really disappointed

i thought Zimmer has somehow "returned". I remembered hearing that Finale track in the movie, and then when that Silver theme bursts (at 7:34 in the track), it really made me to think that Zimmer had not lose that power, boy i was wrong.

Yes, it's of the most important theme in the movie

Mike2013-07-06 08:21:40
A shame that the "Silver" theme isn't Zimmer. Oh well.

Frank2013-07-08 06:25:04
If you guys can spend time on the end credits, you will notice that they do reference the the After The Battle of Aughrim. And btw,"Red's Theater Of The Absurd" is composed by Jack White

Edmund Meinerts2013-07-08 12:07:30
I don't really mind that the theme isn't by Zimmer, if it works well and is effectively ARRANGED and USED, I'm happy (even if the arrangement is most likely Zanelli...). It's like the Misty Mountains theme from The Hobbit not being by Howard Shore...but it's the way the theme was played and orchestrated that made it impressive, hence Shore still gets the props from me.

score_trader2013-07-11 01:56:59
Anyone familiar with Angels and Demons will notice the use of several reworked Zanelli cues from the complete score. Also remnants of 160 BPM can also be heard.

Naji2013-07-11 11:36:07
Is a bs movie, y u want him to spend more notes, Hans is a best composer no doubt and he s a smart master he wich movie u should get a great soundtrack so stop nagging fans every body talking like inception is a bad soundtrack, even john Williams I have his last albums only lincoln ok not bad but tin tin and war horse very very boring, Hans is doing more than 5 movies a year u ll get only 1 or 2 great album bcz also we r getting 1 or 2 great movie.
sorry for my English :)

Edmund Meinerts2013-07-11 11:57:55
@Naji, Tintin and War Horse are both leaps and bounds beyond anything Hans has done in the last six years. What are you talking about, boring?

Meta2013-07-11 16:40:40
I always thought of Hans Zimmer and Co's music to be more of a video game variety...As much of his scores have tempos in them....Reminds me of the days playing the original PLaystation where the game cd had 6 tracks or so of instrumental action game music...

Then came the score for the Rock...I saw similarities.

Naji2013-07-11 18:04:44
Edmund maybe bcz u r a big fan for john, ill respect ur opinion but there s a lot from hans in this six years much much better than tin tin and war horse u ll buy them just 1 or 2 tracks u can s amazing but th others just for movie movment so please just understand what im talking about.
Hans is a best composers last six years my dear what u r talking about?

Naji2013-07-11 18:10:58
The Dark knight
Sherlock holmes
Angles and Demons
Pirates 4
And u saying tin tin and war horse leaps and bounds please Try 2 get this albums if u dont have them.
And ill say it agin john s th king but also he has a lot a lot off Bad albums.

Edmund Meinerts2013-07-11 20:40:55
Pirates 4 vs. Tintin/War Horse? Don't make me laugh! At least Williams doesn't stuff his Indiana Jones sequels full of the Raiders' March and inappropriate uses of themes. And at least he doesn't clutter up over half the album with remixes.

Zimmer is great when he has a mind to be but the last five, six years have not been kind to him, IMO. Man of Steel is a disappointment, The Dark Knight Rises had some promising new themes but was ultimately a lot of rehash, Pirates 4 was an absolute mess both on album and in film, Sherlock 2 was nearly as bad on album, Inception...yeah, it's pretty good, but I also find it kind of tiring and repetitive after a while. The last really GREAT Zimmer score, IMO, was Angels & Demons. Whereas Williams with both War Horse and Tintin provided two pretty great scores with lots of themes and variety. They're not his best but they are most definitely not boring.

But the best composer of the last six years is neither of those's John Powell.

score_trader2013-07-11 22:31:56
Pirates 3 would be better to compare to something than pirates 4. Just saying.

Naji2013-07-11 22:56:46
LOL John powell, ok as u wish.
John with tin tin and war horse is nothing comp with his olds albums for me Sherlock holmes 1 is much better so far inception ill not comp with theme bcz s shame to comp u r trying to convince me sorry sorry but with bs examples I have all john albums and all hans for me if im in my car ill take Gladiator I can but from start to end inception the same Sherlock the same da vinci angles and demons but tell me best album from john best one how many track u can lisent without movie when u r in home or in the car...... John he s the king no doubt but his music for th movies only theme and ending almost all th tracks for th movie movment.
I don't know how old r u but my dear there s man for eich time so please don't push th master down be positive and be onest, nice talk to u sorry if anything came wrong from my mouth to u.

Naji2013-07-11 23:02:23
and last last thing u r talking like if hans he s th only one u can find something same in his old album if u want ill give 100 ex for john, elfman, powell and any composer u want just give me a name my dear u r talking about a man he has more than 120 album in his career.
now im finish :)

Edmund Meinerts2013-07-12 00:54:59
I'm done too. Not worth deciphering. If what you're saying is that Williams' scores are only worth it for the themes and that none of the cues in between are worth listening to...Well, to each his own, but whenever I listen to, say, Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom, there's not a single track I want to skip. Whether it's a theme/suite or not.

Mike2013-07-12 01:12:35
Speaking of John Williams, this might surprise some, since it's very minimalist, but one of my favorite scores by him is Lincoln. War Horse didn't do much for me. Not sure why. It was very good objectively speaking, but it just didn't really move me.

Peter2013-07-12 02:26:30
Naji; you need to fix your typo!(bad). It seems you're a new listener of scores(zimmer/williams) ;)

Meta2013-07-12 07:18:41
I have to agree with Mike...War Horse just didn't feel right for some reason...Maybe it was the theme...Lincoln's theme was better, but to be honest by day's end I didn't care about either...

I dont know what Williams is doing these days, and at 80 years old I give the man credit because I can't imagine writing even a goddamn sentence right, if at all, at 80 years of age....

But his music since Indy 4 just...I dunno...kinda went limp for me...maybe he's just tired.

Anonymous2013-07-12 12:46:19
Peter: if u mean my typing yes u r right Im not very good in eng but u mean im new with soundtrack im sure 20y s not bad, john and hans th best for me but hans s my friend on th way sorry this s my opinion

Naji2013-07-12 12:57:29
Peter: Just bcz I dont like tin tin and war horse and Hans my best so Im new listener, I givemy opinion and s true 100% u like it or not its up to u, When i ask th guy i can take this albums for hans from start to end he keep saying indiana jones i give 10 album he give me 1 so what u think what s ur albums from john u can listent from start to end?

medigo2013-07-12 13:46:14
williams is fine
but the way his music is used in movies can get nauseating

especially WarHorse, god that was stupidly sappy

Meta2013-07-12 16:46:59
This is what I get from RC and the general method:

Think up a theme...two notes...3 notes...whatever.

Build on that theme slowly by adding layers, percussion, etc...Make a suite. Done.

Now make an action piece out of that theme. Done.

You're a film score professional.

I know not ALL RC composers are this basic, but I notice this structure with ALOT of scores...Is it genius? Well it IS rather economical and efficient than writing out a complicated overture ...

LP2013-07-12 18:49:11
If the Tonto theme is "losely based on" an existing piece, is it a bad thing? Especially when the result is an entirely different piece? Subverting a Celtic tune to be something for the Native American is kinda interesting to me.

JamesT2013-07-13 03:39:59
All this Zimmer bashing is absurd. His effort/direction is to write a score in support of the film -- this includes utilizing a varied approach, including a group of other highly talented, supporting composers and staff that augment the effort. Is the criticism whether it fits the film or appeals to the expectations of fans, or both? Let us remember that Hans is not unilaterally making decisions here about the eventual outcome -- there is a Director, Producers, etc. The guy (Hans) is consistently evolving, making a unique and creating stamp on just about everything he does, pouring out highly complex material (despite the critics that try and simplify his work), creating an enormous sense of anticipation, and over-reaching to deliver the best on every film. Like it or not. The sounds of the 90's from Hans is just that -- is remains back with the films of a decade or more ago. There is a reason I have listened to and appreciate him more now than ever. Inception, Batman +3, The Lone Ranger, and certainly, Man of Steel and the upcoming Rush. He consistently prevails with memorable outcome and makes me appreciate my life through music and film like no other. Not everyone will agree, not everyone should. I wish I was as talented as he is -- what a gift.

Bioscope2013-07-13 06:12:17
Tonto's theme's origin makes me think of assimilation, and that is exactly what happened to most Native Americans that weren't slaughtered. Another RCP in-joke related to subtext?1154

Brent2013-07-13 08:02:05
^JamesT, very well said and I couldn't agree with you more. This argument is getting slightly ridiculous. Sure, do we as a collective group of Zimmer/RCP fans always like what he churns out? Perhaps not. However, to argue and try to "justify" his shortcomings isn't going to help. Hans composes music to best serve the story of the film, nothing else. Does that always come across as an enjoyable listening experience on album and within no reference to the film itself? No. Does he sometimes over think things? Sure. But, at least he's trying to deliver something that he is proud of all the while enjoying the process. Remember folks, at the end of the day, this is a job. At least he still enjoys what he is doing. Just because he works with a cohort of composers, doesn't mean he is incapable or lazy. He enjoys the process of collaboration. Let's not bash him for that. Sure, has he gradually shifted away from composing an entire film himself? Probably. But come to look at it, even from the very beginning, that was never his intent. He never wanted to just compose music for films. Along with telling great stories through music for film, he wanted to create a place where would-be composers can come in and be mentored and be cared for. Just as Stanley did for him.

Now I'm done with my rant. :)

meta2013-07-13 08:06:36
I'm not bashing Zimmer. Not only is his business sense keen, but apparently the vast majority of people prefer these kinds of scores over the orchestral....for whatever reason...So really people can like him or hate him - the way I see it the public made him popular. So until the day comes where people are disinterested in these kinds of musical scores I expect Zimmer to be a mainstay for quite some time.

Be that as it may, however, at the same time I'm also not about to give him a blowjob for his work...alot of his music does deserve criticism, just like anything else.

And by the way the Tonto theme for some reason just sounds odd...Basically because he's using a Violin and (in the Silver cue) percussion which sounds awfully...Asian. It doesn't come off to me as American Indian. Even the way the theme sounds - it reminds me of Kung Fu Panda....

Ds2013-07-13 18:30:17
Totally agree with JamesT on this. It's also why i keep loving Zimmer more than any other composer.

Anonymous reply Replies: 42 || 2013-07-05 14:10:38
Very very good album although the album feels and sounds like 'a group effort', which it really is.

The Finale track is an awesome arrangement. But I'm fairly sure Zimmers involment in that is minimal. I suppose he did the themes. The Finale track screams 'Zanelli-arragement' due to the use of strings and orchestration.

Blu2013-07-05 14:35:13
The great majority of this album sounds like a Geoff Zanelli score to me actually. There are some song credits on imdb which credit Zanelli on several source cues too. That includes the William Tell arrangements.

Meta2013-07-05 19:43:34
Actually I watched the credits and the finale theme was arranged by Geoff, if I recall correctly...

Jack White also wrote the song track on the album.

Anon2013-07-05 21:20:27
so who else is getting ridiculously tired of the amount of ghost writers on Zimmer's scores that end up writing way more of the cues, arrangements, and even some music than Zimmer does? I hope this is not influencing the future of film music. This not how scores are made.
There's one thing to have your apprentice write a bit of stuff when you feel he/she is ready; it's another thing entirely to get 6-10 people write and arrange your cues for you, because you're 'too busy.'

I will always be a fan of the music for these soundtracks and scores, but I feel as if Hans' scores should start being credited as: "Music by Composer X and Composer Y with themes by Hans Zimmer;" or even simpler: "Music by Remote Control Productions."

trent easton navarro2013-07-05 22:04:07
Agreed. It makes Zimmer looks really lazy, get all the credit but hardly do any work for it.

Still, this is Zimmer's(or should that be his minions :P) finest score in quite some while. But it would be nice if we would get a real Hans Zimmer score for a change. Where actually does more than compose a 30min suite.

Mike2013-07-05 22:13:07
I'm tired of the ghost-writers, too. Seriously, if you're gonna do that, at least give more credit to the other guys than JUST "additional music". Judging by the way they're used, it is not just "Music by Hans Zimmer". It seems to a certain extent that Zimmer has become less and less involved with his scores. Does he arrange cues at all anymore, or does he just write suites and then let everyone go to work with those?

Preacher2013-07-05 22:26:35
Maybe its time he retired as he claimed he would a few years ago. He said he wanted to produce.

Mike2013-07-05 22:27:27
In certain cases, this doesn't bother me. If Zimmer writes suites and then the score is truly just THOSE SUITES put in cue form, it's okay. Man of Steel and The DarK Knight Rises fell into that category. Everything in there was copied verbatim as Hans wrote it, so it really was a Hans Zimmer score.

But Inception? Or (from what it sounds like) The Lone Ranger? Or Sherlock Holmes? Or Madagascar? Those, in their final forms, are just loosely based on Zimmer's music.

I was watching a Zimmer interview for Black Rain recently, and I was genuinely surprised for a second when Hans described scoring an ACTUAL SCENE to the film. With the exception of maybe The Dark Knight, it seems like he hardly does that anymore. Please, Zimmer, it's great that you wanna give newer composers experience and it's great that you like being collaborative, but one of these days, do a bit more by yourself. You're so talented and the quality of your work should not be relegated to theme suites.

Hybrid Soldier2013-07-05 22:28:35
Epic fail guys, it just shows you don't "understand" HZ ! :)

Ho and he keeps writing to pictures, the funny thing is that in many cases it's for scores he saves and doesn't get credit for ! ;)

Mike2013-07-05 22:31:30
Okay, Hybrid, I'm honestly saying this, if we don't understand him, tell us how it does work. I'd love to know, for one.

Mike2013-07-05 22:34:18
And also, what scores does he save and not get credit for?

anon2013-07-05 23:35:55
I agree, I would love to read/watch a video that goes into more depth on his process. I know it's 'secretive' and whatever, but the secrets are lessening his name as a film composer. Most of my film composing friends and critics see him as a hack and lazy. They see his scores as nothing more than Pop albums and marketing tools. How are true fans and lovers of his music supposed to defend his art if they have nothing to go off of and they the only info they can find, promote the opposition more than the defence.

I like Zimmer, I'm sure he's still putting lots of work into his scores to deserve his credit, but I would love to see a score one of these days where it literally is just "Music by Hans Zimmer." I look at album credits for some other film scores and it's ridiculous how little staff they have compared to the RCP scores and do just as good - sometimes better - jobs.

I'm sure you're right, Hybrid, and there is a lot more to what goes on in RCP than meets the eye, so then help us and other Zimmer fans with a featurette on how it happens. I doubt anyone would steal his model, but all of us would be interested in how it works.

Hybrid Soldier2013-07-05 23:55:14
The problem is that you people like they are all robots with tasks... You know, they are human, they talk a lot, they exchange ideas & point of views regarding cues, with Hans right in the middle of it !

Spence2013-07-06 00:06:08
For those wondering how the process works, here's a little article that helps understand it a bit more :) h t t p:// Hans does write a lot himself! :)

(remember to delete the spaces when pasting the URL)

Mike2013-07-06 01:22:02
Hybrid Soldier, answer me a question, please: the article posted by Spence says that once Zimmer's suites are written, "Zimmer begins composing the film to picture, scene by scene, with director meetings continuing two to three times per week." Does this mean Zimmer makes original cues for the scenes, then they're tweaked as necessary by the additional music composers? Or, to put it another way, does it mean Zimmer makes a "demo film score" after writing the suites, then the additional composers go to work on that?

If so, and he does indeed score to picture as much as that makes it sound, the additional composer situation becomes much less bothersome.

Anonymous2013-07-06 01:32:53
Spence that article is 6 years old....we know of cues Zimmer himself did back then. The people complaining about it now are more referring to the last couple years.

Spence2013-07-06 04:07:50
Mike, I wouldn't be surprised if this is how he works (demo score, then team fills in the gaps.) Hans comes from a rock and roll world where teamwork is the way to live and stuck-up "I"ll do everything myself, you guys just tag along" diva attitudes are frowned upon, immensely.
Zimmer has stated in many interviews that he likes the collaborative atmosphere - as any rocker would - so, while I am making no judgements, I would not be surprised if this was his working method method.

I too would be completely content with this, as I think would many film music critics and friends that Anon spoke of earlier.

But I'll let Hybrid confirm or deny this.

Mike2013-07-06 08:41:49
I would say that even if Hans' original cues are almost completely discarded in favor of the additional composers' work, it would still be acceptable. Just as long as he really works on the film, rather than just writing suites and giving the "okay" to cues that other people write.

Macejko2013-07-06 16:42:20
So glad that this debate is finally taking place. I would also love to know more about the process itself.

Jimmy2013-07-06 22:44:30
As would I, Macejko.

e2013-07-06 23:28:06
I'd also enjoy some insight on the process.

Macejko2013-07-08 18:03:06
Well, Hybrid?

Mike2013-07-08 21:21:33
Does anyone have an article more recent than the one Spence posted? That one is indeed very insightful, but I can't help but wonder if it's out of date.

isildur2013-07-09 14:06:58
I think what's happening is because of the so many composers he collaborates with whether he is writing the actual score or not it seems many people are seeing it as the other composers work. Well, I don't mind him working with others as long as he does work on the score and as long as the output is good.

Another thing is like in this score many said that they are disappointed that "Finale" is actually not his work. I think it mostly depends on what the director wants for his film. I read in an interview that it was Verbinski who wanted to include that as it is seen as classic Lone Ranger stuff. He said to HZ that whether you like it or not it's going to be in the film so let's just work on it and get themes from it. So, it's not just how Mr.Zimmer wants to compose to a particular film.

h t t p:// r-gore-verbinski-we-are-on-a-crazy-road-to-extinction/

Miki2013-07-09 16:25:38
Exactly! He is an employee. Remember what happened with the Pirates IV. The film company (well-well, Disney again) trhew all of his new ideas replacing them with ripoffs - as far as I know.

Meta2013-07-09 18:10:54
Well, if Zimmer had nothing to do with Finale that's all well and good...I'm just amazed at how we they were able to pull off secondary themes and motifs off the original piece....

Mike2013-07-09 21:52:34
Zimmer thinks Rossini is a hack? Wouldn't have guessed that one. Granted, the article said it was unclear whether Verbinski meant that, but it seems like a very unprofessional thing for Hans to admit if it's true.

Jones2013-07-09 22:38:27
VERY influential of Sherlock Holmes...

but still better then man of steel :)

Hybrid Soldier2013-07-09 23:37:44
To feed up your debate, here's a LENGTHY messaged posted by composer/musician Michael A. Levine, who worked at RCP :

"Why Hans Zimmer Got The Job You Wanted (And You Didn't)

I worked for Hans Zimmer for about 8 years, 5 of which were in a studio at Remote Control, his facility in Santa Monica. Since leaving Remote, many people have said to me, usually in a conspiratorial tone of voice, things like this: Hans doesn't really write his own music. The studios only give him work because he's famous. He's not a real musician. He just gets his clients drunk and all the work is done by guys in the back room. And so forth.

The underlying implication is that this underhanded semi-musician has Hollywood in his thrall due to Svengali like powers and maybe, someday, they'll wake up and hire a "real" composer - like whoever is whispering to me.

No other composer seems to stir up this kind of ire - I never hear people say, "Yeah, that John Williams only writes 12-line sketches and it's up to his orchestrators to make it into real music!"

Well, I hate to break it to you, but Hans gets what he gets because…he deserves it.

Here is why:

1) HANS IS A VISIONARY. In films there is a process called "spotting" in which the composer and director decide what kind of music is needed where. Hans is the best spotter I've ever observed. He has an extraordinary sense of what will work. But long before spotting, he will spend weeks writing a musical suite which is the source of the musical themes of the film. Oddly, this isn't really about music - it's about the essence of what the story and the characters are. Film composer great Elmer Bernstein (Magnificent Seven, To Kill A Mockingbird) once said to me, "The dirty little secret is that we're not musicians - we're dramatists." Hans is an outstanding dramatist.

But he also fearlessly pushes himself, challenging the limits of what is acceptable in our medium. In Batman: Dark Knight, long before we had footage of the film, Hans asked Heitor Pereira (guitar), Martin Tillman (cello), and me (violin and tenor violin) to separately record some variations on a set of instructions involving 2 notes, C and D. This involved a fair amount of interpretation! For those who are familiar with classical music, it was John Cage meets Phil Glass. We each spent a week making hundreds of snippets. Then we had to listen to each other's work and re-interpret that. The end result was a toolbox of sounds that provided Hans with the attitude of his score.

Later, he asked me to double every ostinato (repeating phrase) pattern the violins and violas played. There were a LOT. And a great studio orchestra had already played them all! I spent a week on what I considered an eccentric fool's errand, providing score mixer, Alan Meyerson, with single, double, and triple pass versions of huge swaths of the score. Months later, I joked with him about how "useful" my efforts had been. Alan told me that, actually, they had turned out to be a crucial element of the score, that he often pulled out the orchestra and went to my performances when something needed to be edgy or raw.

The attached video shows something from Man of Steel. Hans assembled a room full of great trap drummers to play the same groove at the same time, each with tiny variations. Is it a stunt? Maybe. But does it deliver a sound you've never quite heard before? Definitely.

2) HANS WORKS VERY, VERY HARD. When working on a project - which is most of the time - Hans usually arrives at the studio at 11 am and then works until 3 or 4 in the morning. 7 days a week. For months. As the deadline approaches, everything else fades away. Harry Gregson-Williams once told me you could tell how far into a project Hans was by the length of his beard - at some point, he stops shaving.

His late-night hours provide welcome relief from badgering studios and the noise of running a business. They proved to be a challenge to my metabolism when I was getting up at 6 a.m. to go to yoga. Which leads me to a the title of another post, "Never Keep Different Hours Than Your Boss." But I digress.

Hans is not as fast as his one-time assistant, Harry, or his current go-to arranger, Loren Balfe, both of whom work at superhuman speed. Hans once suggested that I worked too fast. I was puzzled at the time, but what I think he was really saying was that I needed to pay better attention to the little details that, cumulatively, make all the difference.

3) HANS IS THE BEST FILM MUSIC PRODUCER IN THE BUSINESS. We're not talking about technical music skills. Hans is a so-so pianist and guitarist and his knowledge of academic theory is, by intention, limited. (I was once chastised while working on The Simpsons Movie for saying "lydian flat 7" instead of "the cartoon scale.") He doesn't read standard notation very well, either. But no one reads piano roll better than he does. [The piano roll is a page of a music computer program that displays the notes graphically.] Which gets to the heart of the matter: Hans knows what he needs to know to make it sound great.

Sometimes, that is the right musicians. Sometimes it is the right sample library. Sometimes it is the right room, or engineer, or recording technique, or mixing technique. All that counts is the end result. And it always sounds spectacular.

4) HANS WORKS WITH GREAT PEOPLE. Take a look at the composers who have worked for Hans: John Powell, Harry Gregson-Williams, Heitor Pereira, Henry Jackman, Steve Jablonsky, Lorne Balfe, Trevor Morris, Ramin Djawadi, Jeff Rona, Mark Mancina, Atli Orvarsson, Geoff Zanelli, Blake Neeley, Stephen Hilton, Tom "Junkie XL" Holkenborg and on and on. And Alan Meyerson, his mixer. And Bob Badami, Ken Karman, his music editors. (Bob's credits alone dwarf about everybody in the business). His great percussionists, Satnam Ramgotra and Ryeland Allison. Sound designers, Howard Scarr and Mel Wesson. Not to mention Steve Kofsky, his business partner. And all the tech whizzes he's had over the years: Mark Wherry, Sam Estes, Pete Snell, Tom Broderick. Even his personal assistants - Andrew Zack, then Czar Russell - are remarkable.

Of course, the really amazing talents are the ones he works for: Chris Nolan, Gore Verbinski, Jim Brooks, Ron Howard, Jeffrey Katzenberg, and Jerry Bruckheimer. But he would never get the chance to work for them if he didn't hold up his end of the bargain.

5) HANS IS A CHARMER. The first time Jeffrey Katzenberg heard Hans' love theme for Megamind he said, "It sounds like 1968 on the French Riviera." It was not a compliment. And it wasn't wrong. Actually, what Hans realized - and Jeffrey hadn't - was that the heart of the love story in the movie was right out of A Man and A Woman and La Nouvelle Vague. Rather than point this out, Hans said, "Let me work on it some more." Over the next two weeks he played revision after revision for Jeffrey, each time making small changes to the arrangement or structure, but keeping the same basic tune. A couple of weeks later, after Jeffrey tore apart the music for a different scene that we'd worked pretty hard on, he said, "Well, at least we have a great love theme!" The rest of us looked at each other. When did that happen!

Hans is acutely aware of the presentational aspect of our business. His capacious control room, rather than being the strictly functional wood and bland fabric of a typical studio, is a lurid red velvet - a 19th century Turkish bordello as Hans describes it. With a wall of rare analog modular synthesizers in the back. At dinner, he serves his guests fine wine, and gives others cleverly appropriate (more so than lavish) gifts. As one of his clients said to me, "Hans makes you feel like a great chef is inviting you into his kitchen."

Not all of us can afford HZ level dog and pony shows. But most of us can use what we do have better.

6) HANS DELIVERS. Hans often gets hired for massive projects. The reason he uses an army of people is that he needs them to keep up with the demands of the directors and the studios. Halfway through Rango, Gore Verbinski suddenly changed direction, threw almost everything out, and we started over. Without a team to carry out the new directions, we'd have been dead.

Look at what happened to Howard Shore on King Kong, Marc Shaiman on Team America, Maurice Jarre on River Wild, Gabriel Yared on Troy, or the great Bernard Herrmann on Torn Curtain? In each case they were fired because the studio or director lost faith that they could shift direction quickly enough once their original approach was rejected. In 150+ films this has never happened to Hans.

BTW, he is also very aware of what the power structure is - who really makes decisions. I was fired - or more accurately not hired after a trial period - from a film because I jumped through hoops for the director who had hired me while not spending enough time figuring out what the producer - the actual power - wanted. Rather than being sympathetic, Hans told me I had failed in a fundamental task: determining who was my boss. He was right, and I haven't made that mistake again.

So, is Hans my favorite film composer? No. He's not even Hans' favorite film composer! (I'm guessing that would be Nina Rota or Ennio Morricone, but you'd have to ask him.) And he can be dismissive, condescending, arrogant, exploitative, and just plain mean. Like me. And, I suspect, you.

But he is exceptionally smart, gifted, accomplished, and hard-working. And here is the hard truth: outside of a few rare exceptions, the people who are successful in the film business are successful because they deserve to be. They have earned it. Yes, they have been lucky. But everybody gets lucky eventually. The question is what do you do when good fortune arrives. If you want to be as successful as the people you admire, you need to be as smart, resourceful, and determined as they are. As Hans is."

Mike2013-07-09 23:51:17
That was an intensely interesting read.

Anonymous2013-07-09 23:55:28
And let's face it: whether or not Hans deserves sole credit for his films, the man writes GOOD MUSIC. Marry Me, Science and Religion, A Dark Knight, A Way of Life, Time, Wayne Manor, all of those are some of the best pieces of music I've heard.

Spence2013-07-10 01:14:03
What Hybrid just posted is exactly what I respect Hans even on the scores I felt were "so-so". It's the attitude I've had "installed into the harddrive of my brain" by my father. Success (and all it's relative levels) doesn't come overnight nor because you "want it badly." It comes based on how well you know and can work in the field you choose and how how you work to make sure it's achieved. Hans knows that music is a very very very very small part of film composing, I recommend you all read what Hybrid just posted if you thought music was at the top of the "important things in film scoring" list. It's posts like this which reminds you why Hans is at the top: he knows how to play the game. We all have our flaws- as mentioned in that post, so does Hans- but they really don't matter or appear when you know how to work with others and make them happy. I constantly see a lot of controversy behind Mr. Zimmer on the internet and especially this site, but that's because people keep forgetting, film scoring is a business, it's always been, Hans is the best business man in the art. I'd recommend everyone read that post! :D

Meta2013-07-10 06:50:18
I honestly don't even know why it even has to be explained...

it does't matter anyway...he is where he is at because of his audience. It doesn't matter his skills or the reason or even if he DESERVES IT....he doesn't need to explain himself because the majority like his music set to film. The films he scores make it big, and he continues his career...

Deserve really doesn't have anything to do with it, IMO.


Spaghetti Madness2013-07-10 08:22:20
My eyes hurt now from reading all of that.

Jo2013-07-10 11:05:00
Thank you, Hybrid, for posting that.

El Baradei2013-07-10 11:40:16
Thank you for this.
After reading this, some people are able to understand him and his work better than before, if they want to (many don't want to).

Hans loves to work with other composers, not alone, so this is the true reason for all the co-composers and additional music. It's not of his "lazyness".

Macejko2013-07-10 11:57:14
It surely was a nice read, but there is no actual info about the scoring process and collaboration. I think that was the thing everyone was interested in.

tomPoland2013-07-10 15:44:01
So he works very hard... so that makes his music better? Brian Tyler has 5/6 huge projects a year and he's still capable to write and record (conduct) all those notes by himself. Desplat - 9 scores a year, Beltrami - 7 this year. JNH had 6 weeks to score King Kong and has done it - every note was his. Tyler - Children of Dune, 6 weeks, 174 cues, all conducted by him (live and through video monitor) + Inama Nushif that he wrote (literally searched whole book and wrote song in Fremen language).

Don't compare HZ to them.

Hybrid Soldier2013-07-10 17:19:43
Brian Tyler, Marco Beltrami, doing score by themselves alone ?

Are you kidding ?

Tyler uses RCP (Stu Thomas, Halli Cauthery, Todd Haberman, Bryce Jacobs & others), Beltrami has Marcus Trumpp, Buck Sanders and some others... Even James has help from Stu Thomas, Sunna Wehrmeijer, Clay Duncan or Mel Wesson...

Do you even know what you're talking about ?

Mike2013-07-10 20:16:15
As someone above said, while the thing Hybrid posted is interesting, it doesn't really give insight as to how much--if any--of the film Hans scores. In modern movies like TDKR and Man of Steel, did he do any of the film cues for a given scene himself? I get that he wrote the music used, but I wonder if any of the cues we hear nowadays are his.

Ds2013-07-10 23:37:43
@mike: i read a track-by-track interview in the last issue of Empire about the Man of Steel soundtrack, HZ said he wrote the music for the epic final fight straight after he's seen the pictures. But I don't know if it was only "You die or i do" or also "If you love these people", since the interview seemed a bit out of order (Empire aren't really specialists in film music :p)

Edmund Meinerts2013-07-11 01:24:33
@tomPoland What Hybrid, King Kong was most definitely not written by Howard alone. There's rumors flying around as to who exactly was involved but two that I know for sure did some work on it are Chris Bacon and Blake Neely. Ghostwriting is pretty common in the industry and it doesn't bother me as long as they're credited fairly - unfortunately that doesn't happen as much as I'd like, and even then often only "unofficially" here by Hybrid.

Not sure about Desplat though. That man's a freaking machine. It's really weird that we haven't heard anything from him since Zero Dark Thirty...

hmmm2013-07-12 09:11:57
I thnik that tomPoland tried to say, that other composers don't work like "ok guys, here's 30 min suit, expand it, fill the gaps and orchestrate it; I'm going to an interview to say how awesome and great this score will be; when I'm back, we will make a featurettte for DVD to show scoring process and maybe few shots of me sitting behind the consloe, all right? see ya"
cause thats what it might looks like for someone

Naji reply Replies: 0 || 2013-07-11 17:14:34
Edmund maybe bcz u r a big fan for john, ill respect ur opinion but there s a lot from hans in this six years much much better than tin tin and war horse u ll buy them just 1 or 2 tracks u can s amazing but th others just for movie movment so please just understand what im talking about.
Hans is a best composers last six years my dear what u r talking about?

Duder reply Replies: 5 || 2013-07-05 03:54:32
Apart from the tracks that sounds like complete rip offs from Pirates of the Carribean and Sherlock Holmes (mainly the action cues) this score is wicked!
Favourite tracks:
Never Take Off The Mask
And maybe also The Rainroad Waits For No One

Will probably buy this CD for the collection. I just hope for future family adventure scores, Hans veers away from the generic action cues and writes cues more specific to the film itself. (like home and Silver in this case)

Duder2013-07-05 03:58:55
Actually, I was confused by the tracks, The Railroad waits for No One was an example of th generic family stuff Hans writes all the time. I replace that with You've Looked Better in my list of favourite tracks

Meta2013-07-05 05:21:40
Never Take Off The Mask - intro scene before the kid walks into the exhibit

Absurdity - I heard this track in different parts, during the whorehouse scene and the scene where they blow up the bridge...sounds like a suite version of it.

Silver - Looks like an extension of Tonto's main theme...a suite.

Ride - two different scenes: One in the beginning with the buffalo introducing the hero, and the other comes from a scene later in the movie where Ranger and Tonto are riding in the desert.

You've Looked Better - Butch eating the heart scene...

Red's Theater Of The Absurd - Pokey LaFarge & The South City Three (3:02) - Pretty obvious - the whorehouse scene

The Railroad Waits For No One - the First railroad action scene

You're Just A Man In A Mask - the scene where Tonto and Ranger have a falling out at the mine over killing Butch.

For God And For Country - Comanche Massacre at the Mine scene.

Finale - Obviously the final train action scene - impressively its all there nothing seems to have been cut out.

Home - end credits scene with Tonto walking into the desert

(The reprise of the Lone Ranger theme "End Credits Part 1" would have been perfect on this album, but I guess instead they opted for the song...Too bad)

The only other music from the film that i found to be missing here apart from End Credits part 1 is the scene where Ranger brings Butch to Cole, Tonto's back story (which is actually partially included in the "For God and Country" cue), and...Well..I would say probably the beginning scene where Cole is introduced. The rest I didn't really notice...

- Just a little observation of the score, in case anybody's interested....

Mike2013-07-05 05:57:17
So, Meta, would you say that, like Man of Steel, most of the notable music is here on the album?

Meta2013-07-05 09:42:40
All that's REALLY missing is the End Credits 1 suite. That's about 3 minutes of goodness. But otherwise, pretty much...

if I had to choose, though, I'd say the "End Credits Pt 1" and the "Tonto's Story" piece would round it off nicely.

That's about 10 minutes more.

Just Some Nut2013-07-06 05:06:00
Where does one find end credits part 1?

lio reply Replies: 0 || 2013-07-05 13:12:05
I think it's one of the best soundtracks of 2013 and I'm not joking or sarcastic, I think the choice of instruments is Excellent,clarinet,Penny whistle, oboe, flute, bassoon, trumpets, some morricone guitars and a violin whith irish touch give it a rich sound,the mix is better from what we are used from zimmer and really let the orchestra shine,the Percussion and drums always remain behind and Without disturb the rest of the instruments.
Finale is one of the most fun pieces Zimmer did in years and in minute 7:33 When the trumpet came in ,I swear I said to myself with a big smile -the epic Zimmer is back!!!
"silver" and "home" are great tracks and Together with "finale" are the highlights of the score and "The Railroad Waits For No On" Reminds me the best of the "trains" track from the Peacemaker.
My only complaint is about the length of the album, another 15-20 minutes of music were welcomed and probably a lot of music from the movie is missing
4 stars from me

Dimitris Krommidas reply Replies: 0 || 2013-07-05 11:20:34
So, one format of the album is out, the digital. For the other format, the CD we will have to wait until July 23!!

Jimmy reply Replies: 0 || 2013-07-05 08:17:33
There are people comparing this score to Sherlock Holmes and Rango but it's vastly superior to both IMO.

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The Lone Ranger soundtrack - Hans Zimmer 2013